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iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

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Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#51
Photoshop is anti-unix and anti-programmer. Because I cannot program in it. Duh.

It's official—from now on I am anti-stupid-titles on HN. Will flag any submission with a meaningless title like this.

What does it mean being anti? It's either active stance against something or at least major disagreement.

I cannot see how iOS is actively fighting unix (being based on it) or programmers (being created for it and offering thousands of API for them).

Neither I see how iOS is passively anti-unix and anti-programmers. My car has probably a dozen computers but I cannot program on it. So what? My TV probably runs linux, and I cannot program on it either. Does it make it anti-linux and anti-programmer?

Why do some expect anything with cpu, display and storage to be full-blown programmers workstation is beyond me.

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#52
post #47

How many people actually program on an iPad or iPhone? I mean in any real sense and not something simple like SSHing into a unix box to update a config file. None. That's not the purpose of it. Apple has never implied nor mentioned anything like that should be or could be done on that device. It's built to browse the web and use touch applications. I despise articles like these because they try to put products like t…

I think the title is misleading. The author hints at a much bigger issue (I'm not an iOS user so I can't say how valid his point is but it's not about 'programming' per se.

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#53
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All these companies want to do is turn your computing experience into a locked down, controlled, monitored experience." Oh, bullshit. Do you really think there is someone siting around at Apple dreaming up new ways to take away your freedom? No. There fucking isn't. I'm a huge believer in small, composable components. And I know that developing against closed platforms sucks . Being able to dig down into the source…

"Oh, bullshit. Do you really think there is someone siting around at Apple dreaming up new ways to take away your freedom?" > No but I honestly thinks there are people sitting around at Apple dreaming up new ways to take away your money, even if it entails taking away your freedom. "The people at Apple just want to make damn good products. They are proud as hell of those products. They work very hard to make them tha…

Side note: Please do not use "> " for your reply. That is generally reserved for quoting what you are replying to.

> No but I honestly thinks there are people sitting around at Apple dreaming up new ways to take away your money, even if it entails taking away your freedom.

Sure, there is some dude somewhere who only cares about driving up the quarterly numbers. But generally Apple has a pretty long record of shipping premium products at a premium price and selling them with a "buy it or don't" attitude. With the possible exception of those damn video adapters, I've never felt like Apple was trying to squeeze money out of me. Sure, they had to play the DRM game with iTunes and let's not even get into the bullshit that the telcos get away with. But, as a composite entity, Apple has been pretty damn respectful of it's customers.

> Yeah... As an aside I think Apple is overrated.

Different tastes for different people. Go ahead, buy whatever product you like. Just don't accuse a team of hard working, talented people of being out to take your freedom.

> It's interfaces are nifty but as seen with Lion they're not above a misstep.

I'm quite happy with the improvements in Lion.

> Plus while they offer a very nice first-time ("store") experience, with time it's edge over the other OS slowly fades. You have to learn all the keyboard shortcuts or you'll be a bit helpless in your shiny OS.

I've used a Windows machine since before I could speak. I worked for Microsoft for several years. I now cringe every time I have to touch the one Windows box at our office.

> Even hardware which tends to be quality can fail, as witnessed with graphic cards overheating problems for instance.

And you've never had a component on your other machines fail? shrug When the machine I built had a power supply failure, I had to go fucking replace it. I was free to use whatever power supply I wanted, but I wasn't free to use my damn computer for the four days I waited for my new component. When my iMac had a buzzing noise, they replaced it in the store in under an hour.

> I had an iPhone 3G and with the new firmware the thing was a trainwreck of usability

Freedom isn't free. Making that new software compatible with that old hardware costs time and money. They did a decent job to appease the tiny cross-section of people who upgrade software, but don't upgrade hardware. Most people don't even know what a software upgrade is, so their old OS version is running just fine on the hardware it was tested against. In general, those who do care about having the latest and greatest can afford a phone upgrade.

> tough I get more bang for my computing power in Android

Who cares how much bang you get? It does the same stuff. Again, it's clear you value different things.

Look, I'm not gonna respond further because as far as I'm concerned, I've made my point: It's not right to personify corporations as evil simply because they don't match your personal taste. It's insulting to the people who work really fucking hard and take great pride in the (not so) small impact they leave on the world.

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#54
post #8

It's not anti-Unix or anti-programmer...it's all about being anti-freedom. All these companies want to do is turn your computing experience into a locked down, controlled, monitored experience. They want to turn your limitless and powerful computer into a home appliance...like a blender or electric razer. No way to customize, no way to modify, no way to organize thoughts your way. No hacking or "jailbreaking" into yo…

How did tin-foil-hat-esque nut-jobbery get voted so high? I wanted an iPad precisely because it isn't a "limitless and powerful computer". I wanted a multipurpose appliance that requires minimal (idealy 0) maintenance.

Newsflash for you: the whole world is not computer programmers (I am and I still don't want to have to think about this stuff when I'm just consuming). They never wanted to know. Which is why something that finally lets them not bother learning this field is so incredibly popular.

For those of us who do want to know Mac still covers that market. I can (and do) install anything I want on my MBP.

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#55
post #8

It's not anti-Unix or anti-programmer...it's all about being anti-freedom. All these companies want to do is turn your computing experience into a locked down, controlled, monitored experience. They want to turn your limitless and powerful computer into a home appliance...like a blender or electric razer. No way to customize, no way to modify, no way to organize thoughts your way. No hacking or "jailbreaking" into yo…

Most comments in this thread strike me as being anti-"normal users". This is the elite, talking about how they can maintain their elite position.

Nonsense. It's about the loss of functionality, not the point that there's a simplified UI available.

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#56
> "The more I use graphical interfaces (or anything that does not operate on text streams - commandline curses programs included), the more I am struck by how profound the loss of composability is".

Er, try Automator.app for an example of non text-stream "composability". Also: Quartz composer. Also: Max/MSP.

Oh, and text-stream composability might be the "unix way" in, but is not exactly programming, it is command line glue.

Composability in programming itself is achieved via other means, for example objects, widgets, components, messages, etc.

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> then the web browsing gets frustrating as streaming > video is choppy over WiFi Ah, those magic frie^H^H^H^H iPad users. Since when web browsing is all about streaming video, and since when it is choppy over WiFi?

Taking the top 100: http://www.alexa.com/topsites : YouTube, BBC, Xvideos, Xhamster, Pornhub, Youporn, Dailymotion, Netflix... It's always choppy over WiFi in London from experience as there's so much interference from the amount of WiFi networks around and contention from the overcrowding. (for ref, I borrowed an iPad for a week and played with it).

"It's always choppy over WiFi in London from experience as there's so much interference from the amount of WiFi networks around and contention from the overcrowding."

Something that, magically, Manhattan, say, has managed to avoid.

Oh, and your experience is "borrowing an iPad for a week".

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#58
I couldn't agree more. Some people say that iOS is not meant to be a programming device and that it is great for what it's meant to be, e.g. reading and watching content, but I disagree. Just a few examples.

- The lack of user facing filesystem means I have to jump through wierd hoops when doing simple stuff like managing my pdfs. An example, I get a pdf and open it in iBooks. A few months further on, I want to read it again and do some annotations, but I need another app for that. Well tough luck, i cannot open the pdf in the other app, since the pdf is tied to iBooks. If i'm lucky, maybe i'll remember i got it via a particular email, and resend it to the other reader. Most probably though, no annotations for me on that pdf.

- I have a network drive and would like to stream movies from it using VLC (due to native player not supporting the encoding). I also have a filebrowser app that can do smb. But there is no way to connect the two. I can either download the whole movie and send it to VLC (which takes a long time and space on my iPad) or try to look for a video player that does smb :S.

I could go on and on with such examples. IPad is obviously a beautifully designed and built device but I would definitely not purchase another one or recommend it to a friend, exactly because of the shortcomings of iOS.

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#59
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Oh, bullshit. Do you really think there is someone siting around at Apple dreaming up new ways to take away your freedom?" > No but I honestly thinks there are people sitting around at Apple dreaming up new ways to take away your money, even if it entails taking away your freedom. "The people at Apple just want to make damn good products. They are proud as hell of those products. They work very hard to make them tha…

Side note: Please do not use "> " for your reply. That is generally reserved for quoting what you are replying to. > No but I honestly thinks there are people sitting around at Apple dreaming up new ways to take away your money, even if it entails taking away your freedom. Sure, there is some dude somewhere who only cares about driving up the quarterly numbers. But generally Apple has a pretty long record of shipping…

When the machine I built had a power supply failure, I had to go fucking replace it. I was free to use whatever power supply I wanted, but I wasn't free to use my damn computer for the four days I waited for my new component.

vs

When my iMac had a buzzing noise, they replaced it in the store in under an hour.

So "sitting on my arse doing nothing, I had to wait four days for a replacement" versus "I physically took my machine to the Apple store and they gave me a replacement at the same time".

These are purposefully selective anecdotes. With your first repair, you yourself could have gone to a store - just like you did with the iMac, only not having to carry the damn thing - and got a power supply in five minutes, taken it back to the office, and had it installed and back up in half an hour. Computer stores and power supplies are as common as muck - unless your desktop PC is really weird, you'll find something suitable by simply throwing a brick.

Total time spent in process for each 'go to shop' scenario? Less than an hour plus travel time. And with the non-imac one, you don't even have to ferry the computer around. All in all, a pretty similar experience.

Unless of course your anecdote is even less fair and the 'four day wait' was for a server part.

It's insulting to the people who work really fucking hard and take great pride in the (not so) small impact they leave on the world.

People who work hard and take pride in the (not so) small impact they leave can still be doing a bad thing, even though they're full of good intentions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generations (This link is just a strong example, I'm not trying to draw a parallel)

Re: iOS is anti-Unix and anti-programmer

#60
post #50

I love composability as much as the author, but his opinion is, to put it kindly, not well informed. iOS has a myriad of mechanisms for sharing content within and between apps, bot from the same developer and from different developers, with and without prior agreement, and for composing workflows and experiences that are greater than the sum of the parts. Some of these mechanisms are new, and the possibilities have n…

The "anti-freedom" charges, the locking out of certain features, you get the same stuff on any platform. Just try to publish an app that abuses the Android logo in any Android market.

Really? "Android isn't free because you can't 'abuse' the brand's logo"? That's the best counter-example you could come up with?

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