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American Airlines and The Points Guy are suing each other

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Re: American Airlines and The Points Guy are suing each other

#51
post #6

https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-service/support/legal-infor... "Unless otherwise noted, all information, AAdvantage® account information, articles, data, images, passwords, Personal Identification Numbers ("PINs"), screens, text, user names, Web pages, or other materials (collectively "Content") appearing on the Site are the exclusive property of American Airlines Group, Inc., or American Airlines, Inc., or their su…

It is cut and dry what they want, but the question is, do the terms give them merely the right to terminate your account... or to sue you?

The question is sue you for what? How do the quantify the damages? It would be an interesting law suit because if AA wins, then it means they are deliberately admitting that customers who regularly track their points causes financial harm to AA.

Re: American Airlines and The Points Guy are suing each other

#52

Years ago I (and a handful of other folks) had a meeting with some people from American who were thinking about opening up their data via an API. One of the other attendees said something to the effect of, "software developers are very, very good at removing inefficiencies when given data like this." It was delicately phrased but the subtext was clearly a warning: if your business depends on asymmetry, an API can sin…

When you operate in a commodity business you want to impede the market's price discovery mechanism (in this case by making it harder for prices to be aggregated). The same issue and battle is playing out for US healthcare as well due to the recent rule forcing hospitals to make prices public.

Opacity in price discovery as an objective in a commodity business is definitely an insightful framing of the issue.

Although the airline industry can be considered a commodity industry, the airline rewards miles industry is less so. What those miles can get you, can essentially change at any time if the airline says so.

Re: American Airlines and The Points Guy are suing each other

#53
post #42

The funny thing is, American sends points data to my email. I wonder if that sort of thing could be leveraged for something similar.

Do it enough and they'll stop.

All of my Amazon order emails now only tell me the order number and the total cost, with zero information on what products are included.

Re: American Airlines and The Points Guy are suing each other

#54
The web is broken.

The original promise of client/server services was that the server would provide data on a universal open data format, and the USER AGENT (initially a web browser, but other kinds were expected) would process it in a format to the liking of the user, and satisfying their needs.

Compare this to the current situation where the industry standard is that the servers do indeed provide data through somewhat standardized APIs, but the browser or native app is developed by the same vendor and serves their commercial interests, not those of the user as a customer. The only standard customization recognized to users is light theme / dark theme, and it has only started a few months ago.

Re: American Airlines and The Points Guy are suing each other

#55

> The interest was monetization of customer eyeballs, an American Airlines source shared that they wanted customers checking accounts at AA.com where they could be marketed to. It seems like so many problems, annoyances and inconvenience in modern society are artificially created/maintained just to enable this disgusting industry. Imagine how more efficient things could be if this cancer was eradicated once and for a…

[deleted]

Re: American Airlines and The Points Guy are suing each other

#58
post #6

https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-service/support/legal-infor... "Unless otherwise noted, all information, AAdvantage® account information, articles, data, images, passwords, Personal Identification Numbers ("PINs"), screens, text, user names, Web pages, or other materials (collectively "Content") appearing on the Site are the exclusive property of American Airlines Group, Inc., or American Airlines, Inc., or their su…

They can say whatever they want. It is a completely different thing whenever that is legal or not.

I can say in a written agreement with my workers that they are my slaves, or that they can not work anywhere else ever. They can even accept those terms, but that does not make it legal.

There are always fair use clauses that copyright law accepts. That data about a customer is the exclusive property of a company is not really true. In some way it is actually the property of the customer.

Re: American Airlines and The Points Guy are suing each other

#59
I wrote a scraper for Air Canada's aeroplan program a few years ago. I wanted to track my points in my own custom native app. I probably had $10,000 worth of points in my account. One day I logged in to find out my account had been deactivated on suspicions of fraud. After several lengthy phone calls with their team (including sending them the node.js script I was using), I was able to get my account restored. For the weeks it took to fix my account it was pretty frustrating. I just don't understand why you can't write a script that acts as your web user agent.

Re: American Airlines and The Points Guy are suing each other

#60
post #6

https://www.aa.com/i18n/customer-service/support/legal-infor... "Unless otherwise noted, all information, AAdvantage® account information, articles, data, images, passwords, Personal Identification Numbers ("PINs"), screens, text, user names, Web pages, or other materials (collectively "Content") appearing on the Site are the exclusive property of American Airlines Group, Inc., or American Airlines, Inc., or their su…

Disclaimer: Founder of a company in the travel space that relies heavily on scraping.

What's interesting here is that there's conflicting precedent... and fundamentally that is what matters. hiQ vs LinkedIn is a great example of accessing data via a scraper that potentially violates the Terms of Services agreement, but found that Microsoft/LinkedIn violated antitrust laws. EF Cultural Travel vs Explorica is another example favoring scrapers. Against that, you have Facebook vs Power.com. Speaking personally, I'd like for clear and explicit rules about what is kosher to scrape and what isn't. Ticket bots are clearly problematic and deserve to burn in hell. Overly aggressive scrapers that incur load shouldn't get a free ride, but stuff like this that is initiated at the client's request and accessing solely the client's data.... I personally believe this should be fair use and would like to see that show up in the law somewhere.

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