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Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

thomask.sdf.org

51–60 of 231 posts

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#51
post #2

"We are listening to your feedback" is corporate speech for "we don't give a shit about your opinion" especially when Microsoft is involved.

Yep. Kind of like "we value your privacy" means "we don't give a shit about your privacy". I guess the only way to uncover a platitude is to test it. The problem with "We are listening to your feedback" is that "listening" is hard to disprove. It doesn't require any action - they're just "listening". It sounds good but doesn't mean anything useful. If, instead, it was "We will respond to your feedback within 48 hours" - well, that's testable. That sounds like a real, honest, useful commitment. Is it just too expensive to do that? Even for a billion dollar business?

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#52
It seems Feedback Hub is a way to give people the feeling that they have somewhere to be heard, without them actually making any difference.

It's a bit like with online petitions: most people feel they have done something after signing a petition, but the vast majority of petitions don't change anything.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#53
post #35

I once even spotted a Microsoft employee who took the time to raise their concerns on the public tracker: That is just incredibly exasperating to see. When even MS employees are being forced to "bend over and take it", you'd think there would be some sort of "find the people responsible for this shitshow in the Windows team inside MS, and keep emailing them to fix it" protest. That one employee he noticed seemed to h…

I mean, I'm a long time linux user and think windows has been steadily getting worse too, but in reference to your linked comment complaining about "inclusively designed" being a meaningless buzzword - I was confused what it meant too, but reading the actual article the full sentence is: >We’re proud that Windows 11 is the most inclusively designed version of Windows, built with and for people with disabilities. so t…

Windows is not accesible even to people without disdabilities. I have to carefully select the background color or else i will end up with a light text colour on light background or dark text colour on dark background. Or to search half of hour for the cursor in a Word document because Microsoft decided that blinking the cursor is so 80s and the cursor is hidden.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#54
post #36

I also spent quite a lot of time during the Windows 10 preview phase, and a while after release, diligently reporting bugs, and voting on well thought-out feature requests. But after noticing that none of these bugs ever got any attention, and how the Feedback Hub was mostly just noise, I started to wonder why I even did free work for a multi-billion dollar company, on my own time. Right around that period I switched…

Whenever a game I play is released on the Nintendo Switch, I am a little bit happier (eg Diablo 3, Tetris Effect). There’s honestly nothing keeping me in Windows except for video games (which I have less and less time for each year). I’m sort of looking forward to the day I won’t need to play video games on Windows and just be happy with a MacBook and a Linux workstation.

You might be interested in a Valve Steamdeck, it's a Switch form factor Linux gaming device.

https://www.steamdeck.com/

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#55
post #6

I've heard the tool's internal frontend (OCV) is equally frustrating to use by employees; and because of the huge amount of useless replies (that the author mentioned) in most teams it's only used for sentiment analysis on keywords ('people generally hate/love the new FooBar feature'). A friend working for MS in Office mentioned they're actually trying to gather customer feedback out of the random bottomless well the…

From the perspective of someone not at Microsoft, it feels like part of the reason it's such a mess is because it's obviously really badly curated, to the point that the Feedback Hub app encourages it. Older versions of the Feedback Hub had categorization on the left so you would naturally browse into a category, but then they changed it to not very visible drop-downs and auto-suggested categories. The result is feedback goes to random categories and is never moved to the correct ones, nor is there a way to report miscategorized feedback. There is also still old feedback for bugs that were fixed in the Windows 10 pre-RTM previews, and even some that are just complete gibberish random characters.

Also, at one point they decided that upvoting problems would no longer be allowed. Instead, you were supposed to file your own report with your own logs. Good intention, except that it meant that everyone either filed their bugs as suggestions instead, or flooded the category with tons of dupes of the same bug.

Running a feedback system is hard, and there's value in having a feedback path that's more accessible to users than a bug database. However, Feedback Hub feels like users dumping feedback into a landfill, and the team then trying to sift through that landfill.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#57
The Feedback hub... A few things are completely a dog's breakfast in the Windows 10 world - and their beyond hideous XBox with Windows App Store is one of them. I tried to file some feedback about the experience using the Hub but it felt like a wholly inappropriate tool for the job.

How do you tell someone they just need to delete everything they've done and start afresh? Because that's the only thing that could fix their Xbox game delivery experience.

I got their Ultimate sub to play FS2020, and also Forza with my son, but I've lost count on how many times it gets into a broken state, a never ending rabbit hole of repairing the Windows store installers and such.

Simply put, the games - or "Experience" service - get stuck in one invalid update state or another, and you just have to try over and over again, until you either give up, or you somehow get it back. This involves both the XBox App, as well as Windows Store - the difference of responsibility between the two not quite clear to me, but both are involved, and absolutely _Windows 10_ services that have no business being coupled to game delivery. And by the time you might have figured it out, your play time budget will be solidly wiped out.

I absolutely hate it. It's in shambles, the dev managers - and engineers - should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves given the access they've got to resources to make it right. Why can't they just do what Steam, Epic, Ubisoft or even Blizzard can do - make their installers simply work, without a dependence on a scaffold of playing cards held together by children's snot?

I'm saying this as someone who loves the WSL2/Win10 desktop Dev experience equally as much as I detest their Xbox gaming store.

(Now that I've voiced this, I'll unsubscribe my Ultimate sub, just stick to DCS, and find other games to play with son.)

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#58
post #2

"We are listening to your feedback" is corporate speech for "we don't give a shit about your opinion" especially when Microsoft is involved.

Yep. Kind of like "we value your privacy" means "we don't give a shit about your privacy". I guess the only way to uncover a platitude is to test it. The problem with "We are listening to your feedback" is that "listening" is hard to disprove. It doesn't require any action - they're just "listening". It sounds good but doesn't mean anything useful. If, instead, it was "We will respond to your feedback within 48 hours…

> Is it just too expensive to do that? Even for a billion dollar business?

It's not about the size of the business, but whether this is a good way for them to spend money or not.

Coffee shops will often not get back to you within 48 hours depending on the comment you make and how busy they are. It's really a judgement call, as large number of comments are basically spam, but you can't reply with "this is a silly comment" or "this is an unreasonable request on our time", so it's best to just ignore.

For a big business, where individual judgement is replaced with a set of procedures and institutions that try to encode judgement, they most surely will offer some level of support with an SLA that guarantees someone will get back to you in a well-defined period of time.

But you usually have to pay extra for that, and that's a pretty sensible system, since leaving comments is free and there is no way to know how serious you are about the comment and how badly you want it responded to. E.g. worth paying, say, $10? $5? $1? There is some intersection of supply and demand for real support at which a certain price results in you getting answers, but in those situations where that price is not zero, it's not the size of the business that matters, but the shape of those supply and demand curves. And the size of the business, in my experience, will tend to shift the supply curve farther away from "free", because that answer will be an official answer of the business and it may take a lot of time for the poor support guy to track someone down and get an official answer, and in some cases it may be a lot of work to get that answer if the bureaucracy is complex and knowledge is stovepiped. This is why you see tiers in support, and the time required to get someone knowledgeable is often much longer as you climb that support chain and escalate your question. All of that ends up costing quite a bit to a big firm.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#59
Combining same files to taskbar is a productivity killer for both technical and non technical people. In many chats when someone presents something on screen I see people struggling to find the proper document when they have few open. Same for people who do "real" work: eg budget with 10 spreadsheets opened, or few word documents... the system hibders ability yo switch between them fast. It feels as if it was designed by people who dont do a real office job.

Why do the program managers even allow to remove such basic functionality? Windows is supposed to be the productivity system and it kills productivity now.

Re: Shenanigans on Microsoft Feedback Hub

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(author here) IMO KDE is the most authentic expression of Windows XP-era UI productivity that exists today. Their dedication to user-configurable settings is an absolute blessing.

And in KDE when you use the bug report tools, someone actually technical ends up reading and acting upon those reports. ;)

This is one of the great joys of open source software. Provide a reasonable bug report and who knows, maybe even the main developer directly responds to it (and thanks you for your input). For Microsoft Windows you can only hope that you have a big enough Twitter following to elecit a response from someone meant to contain the outrage.

Alternatively you might even be able to fix the bug yourself

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