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Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

instructables.com

51–60 of 112 posts

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#51

Sometimes I wonder if the way to bypass the insane regulations around medical devices is to just publish them online for anyone to build themselves. Sure I won't have the minutes detail of million dollar medical equipment, but maybe I don't need all that precision, or maybe that's better than having no access at all to the measurements at all

Most of the commercial devices used to measure VO2 Max aren't regulated medical devices.

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#52

This is really great. For those who aren't familiar with what these machines can do, the calculation of an athlete's Vo2 max really isn't all that useful. However, a breakdown of the fat and carbohydrate calories burned at various efforts can be incredibly useful for helping an athlete learn how to fuel correctly for performance over distance. I'm not a physiologist or physician (and I'm sure what I'm about to say ma…

I would say vo2 max is fairly useful but maybe not in a tactical way which you are describing. Its a longer term trend identifier for efficiency of your respiration process.

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#53
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you have experience in the discipline? It doesn’t sound like you do. I have some experience, and i can think of about a half dozen ways cpap machines and hearing aids could cause serious harm as a result of design flaws or lack of QA that would be de rigeur if not for regulatory pressure.

So can headphones and earbuds, and society seems to do just fine with the normal level of consumer electronics regulation. Is there really value in the medical device regulations for hearing aids beyond that?

> So can headphones and earbuds, and society seems to do just fine with the normal level of consumer electronics regulation.

Do we?

I was under the impression that there has been an uptick in hearing damage in young people due to them increasing the earbud volume above background noise levels (not so much of a problem in earphones that cover the ears as they block out outside noise).

That's a medical problem that will have significant effects downstream over time and the consumer regulation really isn't working.

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#54
post #49
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the insane aspects of the regulations?

One of the common complaints is the lack of accounting for the harm done by delaying a device/therapy/drug. If $DISEASE kills 10k people/year, and $DEVICE can save 90% of them but 5% suffer $DEVICE related deaths, delaying the release 10 years trying to get to 0% related deaths doesn’t sound like the best strategy.

However, this isn't just the FDA.

If $DISEASE kills 10k people/year, the company manufacturing the device doesn't have to pay anything for them.

If $DEVICE kills one child, the company manufacturing the device is on the hook for several million dollars.

So your $DEVICE needs to clear (roughly) 10K*5%*$2 million per person killed or roughly $1 billion in profit to be economically feasible.

That means that those 10k people need to spend, $100K+ each for that device to make it feasible.

It's not just the FDA that makes companies want to drive that 5% down to damn near zero.

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#55
post #19

This is really great. For those who aren't familiar with what these machines can do, the calculation of an athlete's Vo2 max really isn't all that useful. However, a breakdown of the fat and carbohydrate calories burned at various efforts can be incredibly useful for helping an athlete learn how to fuel correctly for performance over distance. I'm not a physiologist or physician (and I'm sure what I'm about to say ma…

A friend of mine does keto and after running a marathon reported that they did not experience "the wall". Presumably this is because they were using fat to begin with, not after mile 15 or whatever.

There is this concept of “fat adapted” after you’ve been on keto for long enough periods of time. I would assume that’s what was happening.

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#56
post #25
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need a currently "missing" network effect that cheap 3d printer supporting everything from more flexible plastics to metal will eventually provide.

Wake me up when we can 3D print pills and I can craft the perfect Tylenol or 5 hour energy from some React app. Now that'll be a medical revolution!

You don't need a 3D printer. Just order bulk acetaminophen and caffeine powder, then put as much as you want into capsules. (Don't poison yourself.)

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#57
post #52

This is really great. For those who aren't familiar with what these machines can do, the calculation of an athlete's Vo2 max really isn't all that useful. However, a breakdown of the fat and carbohydrate calories burned at various efforts can be incredibly useful for helping an athlete learn how to fuel correctly for performance over distance. I'm not a physiologist or physician (and I'm sure what I'm about to say ma…

I would say vo2 max is fairly useful but maybe not in a tactical way which you are describing. Its a longer term trend identifier for efficiency of your respiration process.

Well sort of. But you can train VO2 Max in ways that don't result in higher performance. What most athletes really care about isn't VO2 Max per se, but rather ability to sustain a high percentage of VO2 Max for a longer period.

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#58
post #40
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend of mine does keto and after running a marathon reported that they did not experience "the wall". Presumably this is because they were using fat to begin with, not after mile 15 or whatever.

It all has to do with intensity. We obviously can't tell from the information provided, but if they ran at a slow pace, that would also skew the fueling towards fat.

Exactly. While the marathon is an endurance event, the intensity when racing is often higher than 65% VO2 max - the "fat max" or point at which fat oxidation peaks. For example, for a 3 hour marathoner (or faster), the intensity would be around 74-84% VO2 max or 80-90% max heart rate. It has also been observed that going on keto reduces your running economy (so you end up running slower for the same effort).

As for "hitting the wall", this often happens around 20 miles as this is where your stored glycogen is depleted. To avoid this happening, you'd be better off to "train the gut" to handle consuming ~60g carbs per hour while running at your target pace/intensity.

Re: Portable replacement for a $60k VO2 Max machine

#59
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could it cause one’s lungs to collapse? Isn’t the idea of measuring VO2 max that a tight seal is formed and all input and output is measured for O2 and CO2? It isn’t pressurizing or depressurizing.

It is pressurizing on output due to the flow through the device, the same thing causes some underpressure when breathing in. But I doubt it is enough to draw a vacuum strong enough to break adhesion. Still, better safe than sorry, it would be good to read the instruction manual of a professional unit to see what kind of failure modes they have listed there.

I read a lot of stuff back in 2020 because I was going to be coding up controls for an emergency ventilator... you would not believe just how little pressure difference it takes to permanently ruin your lungs... less than 1 PSI if I recall correctly.
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