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Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

sloanreview.mit.edu

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Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#51

Post by 2muchcoffeeman »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #45
Areading314 wrote: post #34

A huge problem with this industry is the inflexibility to pay current engineers LARGELY increasing comp each year. The thought is that there is a market rate for an engineer and that pay can increase with the market rate, but this is a fallacy. An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that e…

I think the real issue is that changing the companies always gave bigger raise in pay than staying in the company for most of the folks. Most were not changing jobs due to multiple factors like relations, not having to change house, comfort, good office, free food etc. Now this all factors have reduced a lot that staying in current company is looking even worse option. So till employers are able to retain using other…

>* employers are able to give 20-30% raise each year(which is pretty hard)*

Can’t be that hard if an engineer can just walk out and get that. What do you think the replacement will cost? And with none of the knowledge.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#52

Post by stef25 »

freedom2099 wrote: post #25
skrebbel wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll never understand the American thirst for money for the sake of it. If HN comments are to be believed, top performer at your average FAANG easily earn $500k per year. At that point, aren't you well past the point where more money brings more happiness, even in high cost-of-living places? What's the point? Why not find a job that's fun and fulfilling?

I am with you on this one! I really don’t get it… I love in France (French riviera) and my salary despite being very good for the region is very far from the hundreds of thousands of FAANG companies in the US… and yet I more than once turned down offers from FAANGs because no amount of money can bet all the other benefits I get… 35h work week (no extra Hours), very relaxed corporate environment, 35 days of vacation a…

Are you in a big city? Love that part of the world but it ain't cheap. Maybe even the most expensive part of the EU outside of London.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#53

Post by trabant00 »

> failure to promote diversity, equity, and inclusion

I have a very hard time believing this is the major driving factir in the "great resignation". Or maybe my Europe environment is completely different. But to me this sounds like another attempt to push certain political views and not at all to really discover what is going on.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#54

Post by emptyfile »

skrebbel wrote: post #10
foolfoolz wrote: post #7

> Our analysis found that the leading elements contributing to toxic cultures include failure to promote diversity, equity, and inclusion; workers feeling disrespected; and unethical behavior I don’t really believe these reasons or at least they don’t match what i’ve seen. I can only speak for FAANG: I think this is more compensation based than anything else. In an effort to level the playing field FAANGS establish l…

I'll never understand the American thirst for money for the sake of it. If HN comments are to be believed, top performer at your average FAANG easily earn $500k per year. At that point, aren't you well past the point where more money brings more happiness, even in high cost-of-living places? What's the point? Why not find a job that's fun and fulfilling?

One of the things the pandemic thought me is that I value my time a lot more then I do money. Just had to try it out. No way I'm going back.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#55

Post by YetAnotherNick »

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #51
YetAnotherNick wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the real issue is that changing the companies always gave bigger raise in pay than staying in the company for most of the folks. Most were not changing jobs due to multiple factors like relations, not having to change house, comfort, good office, free food etc. Now this all factors have reduced a lot that staying in current company is looking even worse option. So till employers are able to retain using other…

>* employers are able to give 20-30% raise each year(which is pretty hard)* Can’t be that hard if an engineer can just walk out and get that. What do you think the replacement will cost? And with none of the knowledge.

25% raise over 20 years means 86 times increase in salary over a fresher. And no company could pay 5 million dollar or so for an average 20 years of experience. The entire industry hinges on the fact that a person would only change job 5-6 times in 20 years.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#56

Post by quietbritishjim »

Areading314 wrote: post #34

A huge problem with this industry is the inflexibility to pay current engineers LARGELY increasing comp each year. The thought is that there is a market rate for an engineer and that pay can increase with the market rate, but this is a fallacy. An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that e…

> An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that engineer will likely be offered a 3-5% raise.

Although I agree with your overall point, I disagree with this line of reasoning. I think the pay offered to an engineer already takes into account that they will understand the tech stack after six months to a year. The situation is essentially the reverse of what you said: they're being overpaid initially compared to their productivity (but, quite rightly, that's the company's problem). Then their productivity catches up with their salary.

But I agree with your point in the years after that.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#57

Post by hansel_der »

quantified wrote: post #27
jahewson wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of living is just so crazy high here though, $2.5m for a starter home in SV. More in some parts. You’d need a household income of 500k/yr to even qualify for that mortgage.

Depending on your down payment. Some FAANGers just drop 4 mil on a couple of houses and rent one out. And 1.8M is an easy starter even this month.

well see, someone who is in a position to "just drop 4mil on a couple of houses" is top 1%, i.e. not representative for whole lot of ppl.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#58

Post by freedom2099 »

swift532 wrote: post #42
freedom2099 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am with you on this one! I really don’t get it… I love in France (French riviera) and my salary despite being very good for the region is very far from the hundreds of thousands of FAANG companies in the US… and yet I more than once turned down offers from FAANGs because no amount of money can bet all the other benefits I get… 35h work week (no extra Hours), very relaxed corporate environment, 35 days of vacation a…

Sorry if I assume too much, but I think you'd be thinking quite differently if you had to consider buying your first home on the French riviera now, on something like a 60.000-100.000 euro pre-tax salary.

I just did (although not my first, that one I bought 10 years ago)… sold may old apartment (still in the French Riviera) and with my wife we bought a very nice house 100m from the sea! Mortgage interest rates are great at the moment… 0.9% ain’t bad!

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#59

Post by freedom2099 »

stef25 wrote: post #52
freedom2099 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am with you on this one! I really don’t get it… I love in France (French riviera) and my salary despite being very good for the region is very far from the hundreds of thousands of FAANG companies in the US… and yet I more than once turned down offers from FAANGs because no amount of money can bet all the other benefits I get… 35h work week (no extra Hours), very relaxed corporate environment, 35 days of vacation a…

Are you in a big city? Love that part of the world but it ain't cheap. Maybe even the most expensive part of the EU outside of London.

I live near Cannes, in a town of 70k people. Not super cheap but not even that expensive!

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#60

Post by toyg »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #55
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>* employers are able to give 20-30% raise each year(which is pretty hard)* Can’t be that hard if an engineer can just walk out and get that. What do you think the replacement will cost? And with none of the knowledge.

25% raise over 20 years means 86 times increase in salary over a fresher. And no company could pay 5 million dollar or so for an average 20 years of experience. The entire industry hinges on the fact that a person would only change job 5-6 times in 20 years.

> no company could pay 5 million dollar or so for an average 20 years of experience.

Uh, they seem to find that money just fine for execs, who are not even the ones keeping servers up, so to speak...

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