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A few things I’ve learned about livestreaming

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Re: A few things I’ve learned about livestreaming

#51

Post by jstimpfle »

j0yb0y wrote: post #48
jstimpfle wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

24 Hz is not necessarily a bad frame rate (depends for what, really), but even disregarding that most display technology is for 30/60 Hz, I don't think there is any argument that 24Hz is not worse than any higher framerate in terms of visuals. Just like 60 Hz is worse than 144 Hz or even higher rates. The difference is very noticeable. What's worse, how do you intend to display 24 Hz content on a 60 Hz monitor for ex…

NTSC is 29.97 fps and PAL is 25 fps - PAL was higher resolution because it sacrificed frame rate. (Doesn’t change your point of course) (Back in the cathode days seeing a TV set in Europe was like going to a strobe show.) As TFA says (well maybe it was in the comments) there are standard ways of conversion and you pretty much hit them but newer equipment will be able to playback 24fps natively to give the “cinema exp…

That makes sense, was misremembering those details. There is also a "PAL-60" standard though.

Maybe then what Halo did, was simply to compute 60 frames and throw the last 10 away...

Re: A few things I’ve learned about livestreaming

#52

Post by telesilla »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #32
ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #26

> So, what did I do? I switched from Logic to Reaper for my live mixing. Reaper is very cheap ($65, and you can just use it for free if you want), extremely streamlined (it weighs about 35 MB to Logic’s many GB), and has worked perfectly for me. I haven’t had one bad moment with it. It’s what they’d call robust. I’d recommend it for this purpose to anyone. Guess who created Reaper? Justin Frankel. Guess what else he…

What GUI library, if any, is used by Reaper and Winamp? Or is it low level graphics code? I feel like that's the biggest hurdle; you can get web developers by the dozens to craft specialized UIs, but any native GUI will be Windows only, some Mac but only because they're familiar with iOS, QT but they're likely a dying breed, etc. I don't feel like there's a strong alternative to cross-platform webapps (in electron) a…

Check out JUCE, for audio related cross platform UI

Re: A few things I’ve learned about livestreaming

#53

Post by Zababa »

sneak wrote: post #30
charcircuit wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

24 is not a multiple of 30. >and looks "better" due to 24fps being the frame rate of movies I think this is just Stockholm syndrome from people used to bad frame rates. If the content was originally in 60fps don't butcher it by converting it to 24fps.

No, the fact that higher frame rates are not automatically better because "bigger number, more data" is not equivalent to Stockholm syndrome. What's better, a gallery exhibition of 20 photographs or 2000? It doesn't work that way. 24fps is not a bad framerate.

> What's better, a gallery exhibition of 20 photographs or 2000? It doesn't work that way.

Yes, it doesn't work that way, the number of frames you have and the number of pictures you select for a gallery exhibition are two totally different things, the only thing that they have in common is that both are a number of pictures. Unless you consume video content by pausing and watching it frame by frame, which I doubt you do. And even in that case, a lower framerate doesn't equal more "work" being put into each frames, which would be the case for the gallery exhibition, but isn't the case for "livestreaming", since you don't have the time to do that when doing something live.

Re: A few things I’ve learned about livestreaming

#54

Post by capableweb »

hobo_mark wrote: post #45
pfraze wrote: post #15

I spent some time live-streaming a (now dead) project this year. I live-streamed almost all the dev and created an archive indexed by commit ( https://ctzn.network/dev-vlog ). Here are some other non-technical tips: - Don’t livestream everything like I did. You’ll burn out. But do pick a regular schedule like once a week and stick to it. You’ll eventually get regulars and that’s fun. - Use a service like Placeit and…

I had a spare raspberry pi 4 and compiled OBS on it just this weekend, the idea was to have a physically gapped machine just for streaming development (with no personal information on it at all, just the code). It runs OBS + VSCode surprisingly well! (unfortunately I learned my upload bandwidth is wholly inadequate for decent fullscreen live video but at least the pi can take it without overheating).

Are you using some operating system that doesn't have multi-user support by any chance? Otherwise, most modern operating systems allows you to have multiple users per machine, where their files are separated, so you could have one "normal" user you use for day-to-day, and one "streaming" user where you only do streaming from. That's how I make sure everything is separated for me when working VS streaming work (on Windows and Arch Linux, I'm 100% confident macOS has multi-user support as well)

Re: A few things I’ve learned about livestreaming

#55

Post by hobo_mark »

capableweb wrote: post #54
hobo_mark wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a spare raspberry pi 4 and compiled OBS on it just this weekend, the idea was to have a physically gapped machine just for streaming development (with no personal information on it at all, just the code). It runs OBS + VSCode surprisingly well! (unfortunately I learned my upload bandwidth is wholly inadequate for decent fullscreen live video but at least the pi can take it without overheating).

Are you using some operating system that doesn't have multi-user support by any chance? Otherwise, most modern operating systems allows you to have multiple users per machine, where their files are separated, so you could have one "normal" user you use for day-to-day, and one "streaming" user where you only do streaming from. That's how I make sure everything is separated for me when working VS streaming work (on Win…

I'd be using both my primary machine and the streaming one in parallel (on two monitors, using synergy as a kvm), the primary one for browsing, music, git and chat. Seamlessly moving mouse, keyboard and clipboard between setups beats having to switch users back and forth all the time.

Re: A few things I’ve learned about livestreaming

#56

Post by Gravityloss »

It's annoying that I can watch great wireless video from my camera on my cell phone but can't stream with it. Also phone's external microphone usage is very hard and doesn't work on almost any video recording software.

So people resort to bulky hacks like HDMI capture cards etc.

We have all the hardware imaginable but are in a weird software rut.

Re: A few things I’ve learned about livestreaming

#57

Post by scottious »

inexcf wrote: post #35
sneak wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the fact that higher frame rates are not automatically better because "bigger number, more data" is not equivalent to Stockholm syndrome. What's better, a gallery exhibition of 20 photographs or 2000? It doesn't work that way. 24fps is not a bad framerate.

Sorry but thats the worst reasoning i've ever heard when it comes to this FPS debate. 24fps is a bad framerate. Even for movies with the "prerendered motion blur", which helps to smooth the video a bit, its a stuttering mess. Comparing it to watching static photographs makes no sense, an inherent quality of video is it not being static. Don't forget that 46 fps was determined by Edison to be the minimum viable framer…

24fps is definitely not just a low-budget option. People with very expensive cameras capable of shooting 60fps without any issues at all are still CHOOSING 24fps.

The debate about 24fps vs higher frame rates is nuanced. It's about trade-offs and style choices. Here's an example of a videos discussing 24fps vs higher frame rates:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIo7jwsYbxc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6HZPmSlS5c

Re: A few things I’ve learned about livestreaming

#58

Post by pavi-t »

I thought this was a useful article for a beginner, and sent it to my son who's a jazz pianist in NYC. instantly I get a text back saying he knows the writer — Dan Tepfer — and is indeed going to an Alan Hersch performance with Dan later this week.

I had no idea...

Re: A few things I’ve learned about livestreaming

#59

Post by pc86 »

danielvaughn wrote: post #44
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What GUI library, if any, is used by Reaper and Winamp? Or is it low level graphics code? I feel like that's the biggest hurdle; you can get web developers by the dozens to craft specialized UIs, but any native GUI will be Windows only, some Mac but only because they're familiar with iOS, QT but they're likely a dying breed, etc. I don't feel like there's a strong alternative to cross-platform webapps (in electron) a…

I've been trying to create a platform-agnostic styling language for UI designers. The idea is to create a flexible-enough representation of GUIs that each platform could implement it while maintaining their own visual identity. One thing that has held me back is that I'm strictly a web developer - never built a native GUI. So I have no idea how realistic, feasible, or even desirable that is. Your comment makes me thi…

It's certainly very desirable, which means the fact that it doesn't exist already is a huge red flag. Looking at the mobile space as a corollary, there still isn't a decent cross-platform Android/iOS UI library. Is Xamarin even still a thing? Not only would you have the same issues but more with Windows v. MacOS given the long legacy history of Windows UI compared to Android, but if you want it to be truly cross-platform you've got a couple thousand incantations of Linux-style systems to deal with as well.

Based on market share alone[0] going Windows-only seems like a totally fine tradeoff if you want a native GUI.

[0] https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/worldwide...

Re: A few things I’ve learned about livestreaming

#60

Post by danielvaughn »

pc86 wrote: post #59
danielvaughn wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been trying to create a platform-agnostic styling language for UI designers. The idea is to create a flexible-enough representation of GUIs that each platform could implement it while maintaining their own visual identity. One thing that has held me back is that I'm strictly a web developer - never built a native GUI. So I have no idea how realistic, feasible, or even desirable that is. Your comment makes me thi…

It's certainly very desirable, which means the fact that it doesn't exist already is a huge red flag. Looking at the mobile space as a corollary, there still isn't a decent cross-platform Android/iOS UI library. Is Xamarin even still a thing? Not only would you have the same issues but more with Windows v. MacOS given the long legacy history of Windows UI compared to Android, but if you want it to be truly cross-plat…

The only cross-platform UIs I know of are Flutter and QT. Yeah the red flag scares me, especially since I'm not well versed in native/low-level graphics. There must be a good reason why it hasn't been created yet.
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