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Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

worldbeyondwar.org

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Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#51

Post by gampleman »

Barrin92 wrote: post #14

one graphic that stuck with me, that I saw a few years ago is this one ( https://imgur.com/svsB0Ub ) (question being: which nation, according to you, contributed most to the defeat of Germany?" Being German and having Russian relatives the perspective on the war on the continent has always been interesting to me. The sheer scale and brutality of the Eastern front, the war crimes and death (The Soviet Union lost more…

I recently finished "The Phoney Victory" by Peter Hitchens which is certainly an interesting book. While one may not agree with every point or conclusion he makes in the book, I think he proves his overarching point rather well, which is essentially that WW2 was perceived in a skewed way during and right after (not that surprising really), but the perceptions have been getting more skewed as time passes (and especially so in Britain).

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#52

Post by Yoric »

MaxHoppersGhost wrote: post #16
heavyset_go wrote: post #7

Once this was pointed out, I can't unsee it. It's kind of ruined movies that involves the military or military equipment for me, since it can be really obvious when creators toe the line for the military. When I see military equipment my gut reaction is to anticipate the other shoe dropping, and to look for shoehorned hero worship or some good-versus-evil plot point.

Americans love that stuff though, it’s not necessarily propaganda forced down our throats. We’d still want to see the badass, all American commando on a 100 kill streak.

Note that Hollywood movies get shown throughout the world, for better or for worse.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#53

Post by austincheney »

heavyset_go wrote: post #7

Once this was pointed out, I can't unsee it. It's kind of ruined movies that involves the military or military equipment for me, since it can be really obvious when creators toe the line for the military. When I see military equipment my gut reaction is to anticipate the other shoe dropping, and to look for shoehorned hero worship or some good-versus-evil plot point.

That’s the difference between education and entertainment. When you cannot tell the difference you are severely ignorant of one or the other.

The history of this matter remains very clear in most documentaries on the subject both old and new, such as describing the marathon sprint of Zhukov.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#54

Post by systemvoltage »

kzrdude wrote: post #46
systemvoltage wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of good-vs-evil, do you also see WWII veterans and military history in the same light? They got into war that no one asked for. I cannot imagine if US and allies had lost WWII. It is simply unimaginable. Aside: I find the WWII era military training/propaganda videos pretty entertaining: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QgXuhv7-54

That's an example of a well-cemented "good-vs-evil" dichotomy in the sense that the story of good vs evil in WWII has been told and retold so many times, that people can't imagine arguing with it. The concepts of "good" and "evil" are interesting, for example the discussion of the Banality of Evil (Arendt) etc.

Yes, many philosophers (e.g. Nietsche) wrote of it. It is a pretty well established moral line today, completely undisputed - the holocaust, terrorism, etc. It is beyond political ideology.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#55

Post by neuro_image2 »

This is my first exposure to the organization 'world beyond war'.

I absolutely agree with its stated aims and intents. I would love to believe that what they are suggesting could be achievable - but the cynic/skeptic in me worries that this will end up being steamrolled by the people in power as some sort of fringe hippie movement.

Does anyone have direct experience with working with this organization that could relay how effective they are in their approach? Any thoughts on how their stated aims could be realizable?

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#56

Post by fvdessen »

nyokodo wrote: post #19
crate_barre wrote: post #2

The other country that is doing this at Hollywood scale is China, and it’s not just their ‘only popular in China’ movies like Wolf Warrior (1 and 2). Some scenes: https://youtu.be/g7y36UIRAjo IP Man 4, which is more well known to western audiences: https://youtu.be/OlW2VphUNd4 https://youtu.be/JFmaPK0JyVQ You get the idea. Americans make movies where America good, everyone bad. China is now making movies where China…

> The other country that is doing this at Hollywood scale is China The difference being that while state propaganda has infected Hollywood it does not wholly control Hollywood. You’d be hard pressed to find any rough equivalent to Apocalypse Now, Full Metal Jacket, All the President’s Men, or The Post etc in China.

> Apocalypse Now, Full Metal Jacket, All the President’s Men, or The Post

Those movies are also propaganda, but in a more subtle and effective way; The message of these movies being that while america sometimes makes mistakes, in the end the american has a good heart and conscience and should be forgiven.

You don’t see in these movies american soldiers raping civilans, laughing about it, and suffering no ill consequences

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#57

Post by elcapitan »

Barrin92 wrote: post #14

one graphic that stuck with me, that I saw a few years ago is this one ( https://imgur.com/svsB0Ub ) (question being: which nation, according to you, contributed most to the defeat of Germany?" Being German and having Russian relatives the perspective on the war on the continent has always been interesting to me. The sheer scale and brutality of the Eastern front, the war crimes and death (The Soviet Union lost more…

This is completely true, but I wouldn't forget the role of the US Lend-Lease Policy in this [1]. After the German attack, the SU wasn't really able to defend itself on the material side (same as the UK after the Dunkirk loss), and supplies were provided heavily by the US.

> Roughly 17.5 million tons of military equipment, vehicles, industrial supplies, and food were shipped from the Western Hemisphere to the USSR, 94% coming from the US. For comparison, a total of 22 million tons landed in Europe to supply American forces from January 1942 to May 1945. It has been estimated that American deliveries to the USSR through the Persian Corridor alone were sufficient, by US Army standards, to maintain sixty combat divisions in the line.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend-Lease#US_deliveries_to_th...

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#58

Post by eddyfromtheblok »

fvdessen wrote: post #36
systemvoltage wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you haven't played Bro Force: https://www.broforcegame.com/ An extreme caricature of American Military! Amazing game too.

A ‘caricature’ or ‘glorification’ ?

yes

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#59

Post by JetAlone »

crate_barre wrote: post #50
JetAlone wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I find it ironic that the commenters in the ad whine about the "Netflix Original Trailer" looking "Emma" ad in favor of the "Video Game" ad. "No, give me back the old propaganda for an imperialist death machine that will grind up my life and spit on my retired body if I survive once I'm too old and helpless to do anything about it, this one is going to appeal to my political enemiiiieeeeeees and then they'll ge…

That ad is the equivalent of showing college applicants a glorified video of a Film Studies major buying a ticket straight to Hollywood after graduation and winning an Oscar for best director. It’s false advertising at best, predatory at worst. Do you know who are selling a bag of dreams to? Do you care? You’ll take their time, money and lives, and it won’t matter to you in the least, will it?

You're right. They need lives and bodies to serve big picture grand strategy agendas, they'll pander to the "excitable gamer" or the "marginalized underdog" alike as soon as they understand which demo to reach out to when, what style to emulate, and what emotional buttons to push.

Re: Pentagon and CIA shaped thousands of Hollywood movies into effective propaganda

#60

Post by Stevvo »

Barrin92 wrote: post #14

one graphic that stuck with me, that I saw a few years ago is this one ( https://imgur.com/svsB0Ub ) (question being: which nation, according to you, contributed most to the defeat of Germany?" Being German and having Russian relatives the perspective on the war on the continent has always been interesting to me. The sheer scale and brutality of the Eastern front, the war crimes and death (The Soviet Union lost more…

The reality is far more horrific. The Japanese were preparing to surrender to the Soviets, but the US couldn't have the Soviets take credit for winning the war on both fronts so they dropped a couple of nukes on Japan.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Japanese_War

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