The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets • Hacker News Board

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#51

Post by JshWright » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 8:52 PM UTC

wesleyoneal wrote: post #6

krastanov wrote: post #3

This very talented machinist (Clickspring's Chris) is recreating the device using tools from that age on their YouTube channel https://m.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZioPDnFPNsHnyxfygxA0to... It is an amazing playlist.

Tools from that age? I’m on video 2, and it looks like he’s using a bunch of modern tools that wouldn’t have been available 2000+ years ago?

It's not exactly "making the whole thing with period tools" but rather "exploring how each part could have been made using available technology (but still doing the bulk of the work with modern tooling)".

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#52

Post by lisper » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 8:53 PM UTC

FpUser wrote: post #40

lisper wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is inconceivable for us to imagine a rapid regression today To the contrary, I'm finding it increasingly likely that I will see the collapse of civilization within my lifetime, and I'm 57. I see two prospective tipping points on the horizon: the collapse of democracy in the U.S. leading to nuclear war, and climate change leading to world-wide food shortages. The former seems likely within 5-10 years, and the lat…

Why would collapse of democracy in the US lead to nuclear war?

Not quite sure how to answer that if it's not already obvious to you. If democracy collapses, the result will almost certainly be Donald Trump being effectively a dictator. He very nearly started a nuclear war on more than one occasion during his first administration when some checks and balances were still in place [1] [2]. Nothing could stop him if he decided to do it again during his second.

[1] https://gizmodo.com/the-pentagon-worried-trump-was-about-to-...

[2] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/milley-acted-prevent-t...

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#53

Post by FpUser » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 8:54 PM UTC

tehjoker wrote: post #43

FpUser wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would collapse of democracy in the US lead to nuclear war?

they'll fight other countries to deflect from internal problems

Nothing new. They were fighting other countries all along. Still not suicidal.

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#54

Post by wbl » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 8:54 PM UTC

Baeocystin wrote: post #30

dougmwne wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This realization hit me after spending a few weeks in Italy seeing the remains of the Roman Empire. I had a building sense that they were awfully close to the industrial revolution, that there was no particular reason it couldn’t have happened thousands of years ago in the face of a highly organized, long lived, innovative empire with enormous resources. I think it’s an accident of history that it happened in England…

Not an accident. Energy. Rome as a meta-organism was limited by available energy- trees weren't enough, and denudation of forests was already a limiting factor. Meanwhile, Britain had plentiful coal in easily-accessible abundance. No point in developing steam and a theory of thermodynamics when you can't use the results.

Italy does have some coal and Rome at one point had the coal seams of the UK.

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#55

Post by lisper » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 8:56 PM UTC

kingcharles wrote: post #44

lisper wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is inconceivable for us to imagine a rapid regression today To the contrary, I'm finding it increasingly likely that I will see the collapse of civilization within my lifetime, and I'm 57. I see two prospective tipping points on the horizon: the collapse of democracy in the U.S. leading to nuclear war, and climate change leading to world-wide food shortages. The former seems likely within 5-10 years, and the lat…

I don't think any of those events will come to pass, but I suspect you might live long enough to see The Singularity arrive, and that might be the harbinger of doom you are seeking.

One could argue that this has already happened: social media is the singularity. The evil AI doesn't have to be implemented entirely in silicon. Indeed, that fact that it runs in part on human brains helps it remain stealthy.

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#56

Post by tehjoker » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 8:57 PM UTC

nine_k wrote: post #50

tehjoker wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

they'll fight other countries to deflect from internal problems

Did the collapse of democracy in Russia lead to nuclear war?

It didn't which is great news, but tbh I regard the Russians as more rational than us.

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#57

Post by me_me_mu_mu » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 8:57 PM UTC

skunkworker wrote: post #22

Every time I think about the Antikythera mechanism the quote by Arthur C. Clarke comes to mind "If the insight of the Greeks had matched their ingenuity…we would not merely be puttering around on the Moon, we would have reached the nearer stars." It's a little sensational but also makes me think of what could've been, if certain paths had been realized in past times, and also makes me put the technical knowledge of p…

Really dumb question, but one I must ask after reading this article and then your post. Could it be possible that humans had some pretty awesome technology even farther in the past than we know (beyond earliest recorded history), but due to some extinction event all records of society from that time were wiped out?

For example if we had some crazy extinction event, the dark ages that would follow are pretty scary to think about. I would feel like the researchers trying to understand what I'm looking at, and they mention there's some sort of user manual inscription. If we are reduced to small tribes again, with no access to internet, electricity, running water, etc. I can't imagine us actually recovering to the current state without thousands of years. Most people have no idea how anything works, we just buy it on amazon and it arrives tomorrow or stream the latest movie. Just thought I'd throw my dumb question out there lol.

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#58

Post by FpUser » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 8:58 PM UTC

lisper wrote: post #52

FpUser wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would collapse of democracy in the US lead to nuclear war?

Not quite sure how to answer that if it's not already obvious to you. If democracy collapses, the result will almost certainly be Donald Trump being effectively a dictator. He very nearly started a nuclear war on more than one occasion during his first administration when some checks and balances were still in place [1] [2]. Nothing could stop him if he decided to do it again during his second. [1] https://gizmodo.co…

>"He very nearly started a nuclear war on more than one occasion during his first administration

The info in the links you've mentioned does not inspire much confidence.

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#59

Post by JohnBooty » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 8:58 PM UTC

areoform wrote: post #24

The Antikythera mechanism gives me nightmares. Just as the suggestion that a lack of transmissions from intelligent life means the existence of a great filter. The Antikythera mechanism is a strong indicator of technological regression in human beings. Perhaps more terrifying is the fact that it is not the first time we've regressed or collapsed. The mysterious Late Bronze Age Collapse is another example, https://en.…

    Another renaissance to recreate our civilization from 
    our published work would be nearly impossible. Or, 
    take centuries to accomplish.

It might not be possible at all.

We've long since used up the "easy" sources of energy on this planet - all of the fossil fuels conveniently located near the earth's surface have long been depleted. By the time they could possibly be replenished, the Sun will be nearing the end of its life. So we probably won't be bootstraping our way back to an advanced society via a second fossil fuel-powered industrial revolution similar to the first one.

The remaining energy sources are generally pretty tricky to harness.

For example, even if the knowledge to build nuclear reactors or solar panels is not lost during a civilization collapse, it will be awfully tough to actually get those power sources back online without an existing industrial infrastructure to mine/refine/transport all of the necessary ingredients.

If we get a "second chance" at this civilization thing, the road there is going to be insanely hard even if we're lucky enough to start out with all of the science-y stuff that our first civilization figured out eons ago.

Re: The Antikythera mechanism reveals new secrets

#60

Post by lisper » Tue, Jan 04, 2022, 8:59 PM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #49

lisper wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is inconceivable for us to imagine a rapid regression today To the contrary, I'm finding it increasingly likely that I will see the collapse of civilization within my lifetime, and I'm 57. I see two prospective tipping points on the horizon: the collapse of democracy in the U.S. leading to nuclear war, and climate change leading to world-wide food shortages. The former seems likely within 5-10 years, and the lat…

I'll bet you $1M that civilization doesn't collapse within 30 years!

I would like nothing better than to lose that bet, but I don't think my wife would approve. How about a bottle of your favorite scotch? (Which may well cost $1M 30 years from now.)