The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky • Hacker News Board

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#51

Post by Barrin92 » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 9:21 PM UTC

dhdondldn wrote: post #46

coldtea wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tarkovsky was an Orthodox Christian, but his ideas about the irreducibility of experience parallel Zen Let's add that this is not by chance: the irreducibility of experience (especially divine experience) is a core motive of Orthodox Christianity as well (which also has a long tradition of mystics).

The idea that experience is not irreducible is rare. Who thinks they can analyse consciousness into more fundamental elements? Max Planck: "I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness."

Reminds me of James Jeans, another idealist physicist, which I feel like is becoming slightly more popular again of a view.

"The stream of knowledge is heading towards a non-mechanical reality; the universe begins to look more like a great thought than like a machine. Mind no longer appears to be an accidental intruder into the realm of matter...we ought rather hail it as the creator and governor of the realm of matter."

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#52

Post by Barrin92 » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 9:24 PM UTC

streamofdigits wrote: post #7

I don't think his work travels particularly well in the West. It is steeped in symbolism, deep metaphysics and calm, meditative, photography. All attributes that have been essentially banned from the fast food production/consumption chain that has conditioned audiences. Its a bit like pop music. If all you've ever heard is (basic) western harmony and suddenly get exposed to some weird oriental stuff it does not even…

I'm not sure if he's as good as Tarkovsky or as important, but Alex Garland reminds me a lot of him. Annihilation had a very soviet sci-fi feel to it, and there's a scene in Ex Machina that funnily enough mirrors the discussion at the top of the thread about interpreting art.

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#53

Post by mwattsun » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 9:45 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #50

mwattsun wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Andrei Tarkovsky: > If you look for a meaning, you'll miss everything that happens > What matters to me is that they arouse feelings, any feelings you like, based on whatever your inner response might be. That's great and I like introspective and symbolic films, but arousing feelings is not Zen. Tarkovsky wants us to think less and feel more, which I think characterizes most art. Some people might say something like…

>Zen is seeing things clearly and calmly. It's clarity without the filter of thoughts and feelings. Based on my my understanding from practitioners, zen is not characterized by absence or elimination of feelings, but not letting them control your behavior or your thoughts. You don't have to feel like a robot, but you might choose to react like one. There are things in life that are beautiful, happy, and sad. The poin…

Elimination of feelings is not a desired outcome and if extreme can be classed a disorder such and depression, dissociative disorder or psychopathy.

I found Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and Dialectic Behavior Therapy (DBT and Wise Mind) very helpful in dealing with troublesome emotions and then Zen which, as you say, is about not letting them control your behavior or your thoughts but calmly observing them come and go. This is also part of ancient Greek and Roman philosophies such as Stoicism and part of what ancients like Marcus Aurelius and Epictetus were getting at.

https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/marcus-aurelius-quotes

https://www.brainyquote.com/authors/epictetus-quotes

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#54

Post by burnished » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 9:59 PM UTC

I loved Roadside Picnic and this had anticipated watching stalker for years (just never made it happen). When I finally did watch it, recently, I found it relentlessly boring. The questions it raised for me were more of the nature "why is this shot going on for so long" and "do all three of these grown men really think a puddle is the best spot for a nap? Why did you put your foot, still in your shoe, partially into the water?".

If some one feels up to the challenge of explaining what they got out of it and why it is critically acclaimed, please do. I wouldn't be surprised if there was some perspective I had failed to consider that made it a compelling experience.

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#55

Post by 0xBABAD00C » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 10:35 PM UTC

dhdondldn wrote: post #46

coldtea wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tarkovsky was an Orthodox Christian, but his ideas about the irreducibility of experience parallel Zen Let's add that this is not by chance: the irreducibility of experience (especially divine experience) is a core motive of Orthodox Christianity as well (which also has a long tradition of mystics).

The idea that experience is not irreducible is rare. Who thinks they can analyse consciousness into more fundamental elements? Max Planck: "I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness."

> Who thinks they can analyse consciousness into more fundamental elements?

I do. Considering consciousness, a property of animals on a planet in a star system, irreducible and more fundamental than, say, quarks and bosons, seems laughably wrong to me. On the same level of wrong as medieval "geocentric" world views. I have a hard time imagining how those accomplished physicists think this way..

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#56

Post by stinkytaco » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 11:11 PM UTC

streamofdigits wrote: post #7

I don't think his work travels particularly well in the West. It is steeped in symbolism, deep metaphysics and calm, meditative, photography. All attributes that have been essentially banned from the fast food production/consumption chain that has conditioned audiences. Its a bit like pop music. If all you've ever heard is (basic) western harmony and suddenly get exposed to some weird oriental stuff it does not even…

> It is steeped in symbolism, deep metaphysics and calm, meditative, photography. All attributes that have been essentially banned from the fast food production/consumption chain that has conditioned audiences.

Whoa... this is a bold claim. I can think of western films that use techniques like this: 2001: A Space Odyssey, Thin Red Line, Breathless, anything by Bergman, and The Royal Tenenbaums, for example, and many more that employ some of those traits. Additionally, implicit in the suggestion that not having those things somehow makes it "fast food production" (and thus of low quality), is rather unfair to the many western and non-western artists who have honed they're storytelling craft in a variety of styles. I love Tarkovsky and Solaris remains one of my favorite films, but I also like suspense films like Alien or action movies like Enter the Dragon, and many others which are frenetic, scary, fun or exciting.

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#57

Post by nnamtr » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 11:25 PM UTC

randomNumber7 wrote: post #39

Some of my favourite movies. They are now in good quality on youtube, but only in russian. If anyone knows where to get the german (or english) synchro in decent quality pls tell me. I bought them on dvd but the quality is so bad that it hurts the art

https://www.filmingo.de/

Watched Nostalghia yesterday :)

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#58

Post by daneel_w » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 11:45 PM UTC

streamofdigits wrote: post #7

I don't think his work travels particularly well in the West. It is steeped in symbolism, deep metaphysics and calm, meditative, photography. All attributes that have been essentially banned from the fast food production/consumption chain that has conditioned audiences. Its a bit like pop music. If all you've ever heard is (basic) western harmony and suddenly get exposed to some weird oriental stuff it does not even…

Perhaps not in the American West - I could be wrong - but certainly so in the European West.

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#59

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 11:50 PM UTC

jamesakirk wrote: post #13

Tarkovsky was an Orthodox Christian, but his ideas about the irreducibility of experience parallel Zen: "Everybody asks me what things mean in my films. This is terrible! An artist doesn't have to answer for his meanings. I don't think so deeply about my work - I don't know what my symbols may represent. What matters to me is that they arouse feelings, any feelings you like, based on whatever your inner response migh…

[deleted]

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#60

Post by metroholografix » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 11:56 PM UTC

burnished wrote: post #54

I loved Roadside Picnic and this had anticipated watching stalker for years (just never made it happen). When I finally did watch it, recently, I found it relentlessly boring. The questions it raised for me were more of the nature "why is this shot going on for so long" and "do all three of these grown men really think a puddle is the best spot for a nap? Why did you put your foot, still in your shoe, partially into…

The very first impression I have of Stalker [seen on a projector] is being stunningly beautiful. Very few films [including all of Tarkovsky's, with maybe the best being Mirror] manage to create this sense of stunning beauty so that's something that needs to be mentioned.

Other than this, the film simply hypnotized and drew me in. I wasn't analyzing or thinking about the story, rather observing and experiencing, which allowed the magic to unfold. There are scenes that freeze time, the only words that maybe do justice to them are "bewitchingly intense". His philosophical magnum opus [1], Mirror, is even more powerful.

Tarkovsky was not only an artist extraordinaire but a supreme genius, the kind of person that appears once every few centuries. His films are full of something that you certainly won't find in any movie today [especially American], which is called "soul", and a full appreciation of him and his work entails opening up that part of yourself and allowing it to engage with Tarkovsky's as expressed in his output.

[1] I use "philosophy" here to mean meditations on the human condition that are understood / made real through praxis, i.e. its original definition.