Hacking a VW Golf Power Steering ECU • Hacker News Board

Re: Hacking a VW Golf Power Steering ECU

#51

Post by kalnins » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 5:07 PM UTC

ugjka wrote: post #41

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you proposing, that Sweden invades in order to stop car part theft?

You know they are in the EU? Surely there are political tools to solve why there is a demand for stolen car parts in the Baltics

There isn't a demand for stolen car parts. There is a demand for cheeper/used car parts. This is in part due to lower salaries combined with people wanting to buy "cool" cars that are way over their budget hence they aren't able to afford new car parts for them.

Re: Hacking a VW Golf Power Steering ECU

#52

Post by markus_zhang » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 5:08 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #25

markus_zhang wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> XOR with very large keys is how critical military encryption systems such as radios work. Is it that large keys are factors of very large prime numbers so that to know the keys you will need a very powerful computer?

XOR with a one-time pad doesn't work off factors of large numbers - you're thinking of asymmetric encryption there. You literally just XOR each plain text byte with a key byte.

Thanks! I don't know much about cryptography and will check this out.

Re: Hacking a VW Golf Power Steering ECU

#53

Post by lillecarl » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 5:10 PM UTC

kalnins wrote: post #47

lillecarl wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing the amount of part theft in Stockholm I understand why they do it. Particularly steering wheels, they steal them and send them to the baltics where they put them in vehicles where the airbag has fired.

I don't think they actually send them to baltics, as those are stolen from cars here also and they probably catch a better price in Stockholm anyway. Or sent a lot further than that. The running "joke" is that insurers pay to put your original stuff back into car, as insurers somehow find "used" parts for mechanics.

The running joke is a joke indeed, we have accountability and traceability in our marvelous high-tax socialist haven, if you pay someone a significant amount it's VAT has to be tracked, parts can't just magically appear out of thin air, well maybe every now and then, but not systematically.

Edit: Especially airbags, they require special certifications to be installed and managed in Sweden, second hand airbags is NOT a thing here. Though other parts very well might be.

Re: Hacking a VW Golf Power Steering ECU

#54

Post by torquemodwanted » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 5:13 PM UTC

I'd love to do a torque mod on a modern Honda EPS, but there's simply no easy way for a "normal" person do it. The amount of time and effort is extreme with no background knowledge of the problem. (Yes, I understand there's liability, etc.).

It's completely taboo in openpilot discussions (e.g., the Discord channel), so I'm curious if there's an alternative community open to talking about it (distributing pre-patched or providing a patcher).

For Honda cars at least, openpilot is absolutely hindered by the low torque allowed by the stock firmware.

Re: Hacking a VW Golf Power Steering ECU

#55

Post by ugjka » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 5:17 PM UTC

kalnins wrote: post #51

ugjka wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know they are in the EU? Surely there are political tools to solve why there is a demand for stolen car parts in the Baltics

There isn't a demand for stolen car parts. There is a demand for cheeper/used car parts. This is in part due to lower salaries combined with people wanting to buy "cool" cars that are way over their budget hence they aren't able to afford new car parts for them.

And the only solution is lock our cars down and have no right to repair? And there is no question why something like this is happening within the EU? The union which is supposed to solve inequalities like this within its borders?

Re: Hacking a VW Golf Power Steering ECU

#56

Post by unbanned » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 5:32 PM UTC

formerly_proven wrote: post #27

> The electronics seemed to be fabricated using bare dies attached to some substrate, probably to lower cost and improve reliability at higher temperatures. The board is made up of two parts, a low-power part with the CPU and CAN transceivers, and some high-power part with 6 MOSFETs forming a three phase H-Bridge. > https://blog.willemmelching.nl/images/vw/IMG_3181.jpg It doesn't really look cheap to me (large machin…

Ferrari used this method for their ECUs in the 360 to reduce risk of damage from vibration and heat.

Re: Hacking a VW Golf Power Steering ECU

#57

Post by ugjka » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 5:39 PM UTC

lillecarl wrote: post #39

ugjka wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you solve the problem in the baltics, not use it as excuse to turn your cars into "iphones"

Not our jurisdiction, and what could car manufacturers do?

Address the problem at the EU level because both Sweden and the Baltics are in it. This what the EU is for. But obviously it is much convenient to solve this the "Apple" way and claim that there was no other way...

Re: Hacking a VW Golf Power Steering ECU

#58

Post by martin8412 » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 5:39 PM UTC

bob1029 wrote: post #31

Veritio wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you consider an automatic emergency break as less reliable than it helps? Because we do have a lot of numbers on cars were there is a computer in-between. Which should indicate to me that it is safer to drive with one instead of without one. Like just yesterday (I'm driving a new car) I thought about emergency breaking automatic vs. manual and I actually feel safer knowing that the car can potentially break faster…

> I thought about emergency breaking automatic vs. manual and I actually feel safer knowing that the car can potentially break faster. For me, the knowledge that some other engineer designed a system that is a complete black box (from my perspective), which can arbitrarily stop my car with incredible braking force is terrifying. What happens if the emergency braking system decides to have a bug while you are exiting…

My concern is if the engineers were qualified and allowed to follow proper protocol for designing safety critical systems.

Re: Hacking a VW Golf Power Steering ECU

#59

Post by olivermarks » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 5:48 PM UTC

Great write up which also illustrates how deep DRM/closed systems are in cars built this century.

Until around mid 90's cars still had lots of relays and barely comprehensible wiring looms if you could get your hands on workshop manuals.

The sooner we go back to a BEV with the simplicity of a 1960's VW Beetle the better imo, not least so that the third world can get a look in.

Re: Hacking a VW Golf Power Steering ECU

#60

Post by mantas » Mon, Jan 03, 2022, 5:50 PM UTC

ugjka wrote: post #55

kalnins wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There isn't a demand for stolen car parts. There is a demand for cheeper/used car parts. This is in part due to lower salaries combined with people wanting to buy "cool" cars that are way over their budget hence they aren't able to afford new car parts for them.

And the only solution is lock our cars down and have no right to repair? And there is no question why something like this is happening within the EU? The union which is supposed to solve inequalities like this within its borders?

Lithuanian here.

It’s not inequality when instead of a cheap hatchback you NEED to buy BMW 5-Series or Porsche Macan. But you import a damaged one from US. And then you need a bunch of „used“ parts to repair it.