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A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

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Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#51

Post by cycomanic »

_8j50 wrote: post #42

Please HN, let email die. it is unsecurable (universal) in transit or storage (mta's) and because of its reliability and universal adoption a ton of security depends on it like a very rotten and rusted link in a chain even a small child can break. It is an almost 4 decade old tech where any security you find for it is purely opportunistic. I am very concerned how people here are stating how good, simple and reliable…

Yes email is old and has lots of issues, it is still by a large margin the best we have. Name one protocol/program/service that comes anywhere close in its usefulness.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#52

Post by Arathorn »

> As j. b. crawford notes, the prospect for another federated, Internet wide communication system seem very remote at this point in time, so email is it.

I really don’t think this is true, and is defeatist at best. SIP and XMPP both had a good shot at creating a federated Internet-wide communication system, and we are doing our best to build one with Matrix or die trying.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#53

Post by simongray »

cycomanic wrote: post #49
feldrim wrote: post #40

Well, in Estonia, they have a different approach. 1. If you are a citizen or a resident, you get an ID card to use for every public service. It's just a smart card with a government PKI. 2. The public services provide an email account that can only be used within the e-government services. The card is used for accessing those services. 3. The email service accepts either identity number or registry number of the reci…

I always discover how Estonia is really amazing for lots of technology things. AFAIK they are by quite a margin the most advanced country in Europe when in comes to egovernment services. Moreover my (admittedly outside) impression is that they often go for technologically sound solutions not the ones which some large lobby organisation pushed for. This is particularly remarkable considering how small the country is,…

If we are to believe the EU, they are #1 in digital public services and have a respectable place in overall digitalisation of society: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_21_...

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#54

Post by jve »

high_5 wrote: post #10

> There are a huge variety of intra-organizational communication systems, to the point where pretty much every large enterprise provider seems to have one (Slack, Microsoft Teams, Discord, etc etc). That's why I find Delta Chat piggybacking on Push-IMAP such an interesting concept: https://delta.chat

Oh, wow, finally something I started to "dream" about 2 years ago. Thanks for pointing out.

Here's my ASK HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22854641

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#55

Post by fredley »

cycomanic wrote: post #49
feldrim wrote: post #40

Well, in Estonia, they have a different approach. 1. If you are a citizen or a resident, you get an ID card to use for every public service. It's just a smart card with a government PKI. 2. The public services provide an email account that can only be used within the e-government services. The card is used for accessing those services. 3. The email service accepts either identity number or registry number of the reci…

I always discover how Estonia is really amazing for lots of technology things. AFAIK they are by quite a margin the most advanced country in Europe when in comes to egovernment services. Moreover my (admittedly outside) impression is that they often go for technologically sound solutions not the ones which some large lobby organisation pushed for. This is particularly remarkable considering how small the country is,…

Probably because they're so small they're overlooked by the salespeople and lobbyists from the big corps. I imagine that helps a lot. In the UK there are plenty of smart people in Government who can and would build things in a sensible way (and sometimes they do!), but there are also legions of smooth talking salespeople who usually bend the ministers' ears more easily.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#56

Post by jve »

Demcox wrote: post #41
high_5 wrote: post #10

> There are a huge variety of intra-organizational communication systems, to the point where pretty much every large enterprise provider seems to have one (Slack, Microsoft Teams, Discord, etc etc). That's why I find Delta Chat piggybacking on Push-IMAP such an interesting concept: https://delta.chat

I like the idea alot. Too bad the app thorws errors left and right with Gmail and Live making it unuseable to me...

I set it up with gmail (It offered Oauth login which I did) and tried to chat with my exchange. First ping-pong had 0 errors on Android.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#57

Post by cycomanic »

lordnacho wrote: post #8
causi wrote: post #2

Email is our only reliable communication method between different organizations. I'm still of the opinion there should be public-option internet services. Everyone deserves an e-mail address that cannot be taken away from them without a court order.

But we also all need to eat and use a toilet to live. Those seem to be provided by the market to a reasonable degree. Email is also pretty cheap and there's at least some choice among providers, though of course far fewer that food types.

Your toilet example actually proves the point. Generally, water and wastewater services are not private (I know there's exceptions and most are going terribly wrong). So yes everyone's ability to use a toilet is somewhat government guaranteed.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#58

Post by peoplefromibiza »

pjmlp wrote: post #26
zekica wrote: post #15

The biggest blunder for me is that there were usable decentralized communication options before that were popular, but because of trying to monetize user's data FAANG started to tighten their grip on any decentralized solution, and I think they succeeded. They are already trying do to email the same thing they did to XMPP and RSS.

Before Internet we had centralized networking, BBS, Compserve, and similar online services accessed point to point via modem services. What is old is new again.

That's only because running TCP/IP over a 1200 bits per seconds connection was close to impossible, but Fidonet had > 40 thousands nodes connect by 1990, so decentralization was already a thing back then.

When modems became fast enough to handle a TCP/IP connection it was ~1994 and by then Internet was already (relatively) cheap and available.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#59

Post by dento »

OtomotO wrote: post #44
akvadrako wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You already can do that. Just buy a domain name, like mySSN.us. You are free to point it at any email provider of your choosing.

I do that, but you're still at the whim of a corpo and have no real legal right to that domain/email adresses. Also it's kind of technical. Perfect for a nerd like me, but e.g. for my mum? Nope!

Regional domain providers, i.e. .cc country code domains, usually give you legal rights to that domain as long as you pay the fees.

Re: A realization of why email is critical infrastructure for the Internet

#60

Post by akvadrako »

OtomotO wrote: post #44
akvadrako wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You already can do that. Just buy a domain name, like mySSN.us. You are free to point it at any email provider of your choosing.

I do that, but you're still at the whim of a corpo and have no real legal right to that domain/email adresses. Also it's kind of technical. Perfect for a nerd like me, but e.g. for my mum? Nope!

Once you buy it you have a legal right to it.

It is a bit technical, but that can be solved without involving the government. You just need the registrar and email providers to talk to each other with OAuth plus some DNS delegation protocol.

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