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Should you contribute open data to OpenStreetMap?

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Re: Should you contribute open data to OpenStreetMap?

#51
Here is why you should contribute to OSM even though there are major players profiting from it:

OSM is big enough and good enough that all the tech giants (except Google) would do better to start with OSM and improve it to meet their needs than to start a new, completely proprietary map from scratch.

That means that we are in an amazing place where in addition to the substantial volunteer OSM community, there are contributions from Amazon, Apple, Facebook, and hundreds or thousands of smaller companies all coming back in to a single global map that everyone can use. It's very worth it to do work that strengthens OSM, as it increases the number of companies that will use it, and possibly contribute back, rather than doing work the world at large won't benefit from.

P.S. As a disclaimer, I am co-founder of Geocode Earth (https://geocode.earth) a small business that does indeed profit from OSM (and other open) data. We also contribute back both through OSM contributions and by releasing our core software as the Pelias geocoder (https://pelias.io)

Re: Should you contribute open data to OpenStreetMap?

#52

Here is why you should contribute to OSM even though there are major players profiting from it: OSM is big enough and good enough that all the tech giants (except Google) would do better to start with OSM and improve it to meet their needs than to start a new, completely proprietary map from scratch. That means that we are in an amazing place where in addition to the substantial volunteer OSM community, there are con…

Yes, would it be really better to be in situation where standard dataset is proprietary and controlled by Google?

Re: Should you contribute open data to OpenStreetMap?

#54

If all open source software had new license terms tomorrow that said "no commercial use unless you pay me a license fee", they'd just stop using open source. Using it is a business calculation. If you don't get support and you have to pay for it, you might as well pay for proprietary software that you can get support from. And maybe that's fine! Maybe we shouldn't let companies use the software at all . But that woul…

The (strict) philosophy of open source isn't to take money from its adopters, or to prevent them to monetise, it is to spread the openness to serve humanity by having the intelligence reused and built upon rather than energy wasted on replicating and competing. Competition is a waste, contrary to the misinformation we have been subjected to, it only serves a minority at the expense of everyone else. Collaboration off…

> Competition is a waste

I partially agree with this claim, but - FOSS software does not prevent competition, it just takes the intellectual property and copyrights aspect from it. You compete in conditions of access to your competitor's data as well as yours. And there is intense competition in FOSS! It doesn't devolve into everybody working on the same thing. But the point is it is always possible to derive from one of the "branches" of competition and do your own thing.

(Case in point: Desktop environments which based themselves on GNOME 2 because they didn't like where GNOME 3 was headed design-wise.)

Re: Should you contribute open data to OpenStreetMap?

#55
It's a good question to ask. Many here probably aren't old enough to remember the cautionary tale of CDDB/Gracenote [1].

Back when Compact Discs were still a thing. on Winamp, WMP, etc you wanted to display a list of tracks, covert art, the artist, etc. Volunteers contributed this data from their own discs (that could be identified). This was before MP3s and ID3 tagging.

So volunteers built the CDDB with this data. The entity that "owned" it silently put in a copyright assignment with any submissions and ultimately became a company called Gracenote, which still exists today. They also removed the free access to CDDB.

None of this matters today but at the time it was a huge loss and a betrayal.

So I personally think it's completely fine to contribute to something like OSM as long as there are guarantees in there that the open access to that data can't be lost. It doesn't bother me if the likes of Apple and Microsoft use that for commercial uses, particularly if in doing so they contribute data back to the project.

This is why Stackoverflow dumps [2] were done in the first place and why they're so important: as a guarantee against that data being taken away or put behind a paywall.

Beware the CDDBs of the world however.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDDB

[2]: https://meta.stackexchange.com/questions/224873/all-stack-ex...

Re: Should you contribute open data to OpenStreetMap?

#56

I struggle with contributing to open source but in a different context. In my opinion, the video games industry is information sparse on high quality software engineering practices, for whatever reason (NDAs, language/culture, etc). I am already authoring content that basically imports DevOps practices and experiences I have from my day job into a video games context. I believe practitioners have an edge over non-pra…

I'm not a open source contributor in a major way. Just wanted to chime in.

No doubt at least part of your know-how, however small, was built upon others' experiences (also hard to give credit for everything). If you do release your content, this is just giving back to the community.

Also to play with your ego side, let's say some other person beats you to releasing the content that you wanted to release. And that person markets well and takes a lot of credit that you wanted. Would your ego push you to publish sooner?

Re: Should you contribute open data to OpenStreetMap?

#57
post #55

It's a good question to ask. Many here probably aren't old enough to remember the cautionary tale of CDDB/Gracenote [1]. Back when Compact Discs were still a thing. on Winamp, WMP, etc you wanted to display a list of tracks, covert art, the artist, etc. Volunteers contributed this data from their own discs (that could be identified). This was before MP3s and ID3 tagging. So volunteers built the CDDB with this data. T…

> as long as there are guarantees in there that the open access to that data can't be lost.

1) current dataset can be fully downloaded and is available under a copyleft license

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Planet.osm

2) it would be relatively hard to hijack project https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Contributor_Term...

OSMF agrees that it may only use or sub-license Your Contents as part of a database and only under the terms of one or more of the following licences: ODbL 1.0 for the database and DbCL 1.0 for the individual contents of the database; CC-BY-SA 2.0; or such other free and open licence (for example, http://www.opendefinition.org/okd/) as may from time to time be chosen by a vote of the OSMF membership and approved by at least a 2/3 majority vote of active contributors.

Re: Should you contribute open data to OpenStreetMap?

#58
post #55

It's a good question to ask. Many here probably aren't old enough to remember the cautionary tale of CDDB/Gracenote [1]. Back when Compact Discs were still a thing. on Winamp, WMP, etc you wanted to display a list of tracks, covert art, the artist, etc. Volunteers contributed this data from their own discs (that could be identified). This was before MP3s and ID3 tagging. So volunteers built the CDDB with this data. T…

> as long as there are guarantees in there that the open access to that data can't be lost

This is the key point. The problem isn't mutual benefit, the problem is when communities can be seized by private entities or have the rug pulled out from under them, effectively stealing a community and shutting it down for their own gain. That's the difference between OSM and GoodReads. If you're going to donate time, make sure you donate time to commons, not to companies.

That being said, OSM does have a lot of guarantees about its data in place, and even better has license requirements that force companies who extend that data to contribute back. It's good that OSM is seeing more usage across the industry.

Re: Should you contribute open data to OpenStreetMap?

#59

If all open source software had new license terms tomorrow that said "no commercial use unless you pay me a license fee", they'd just stop using open source. Using it is a business calculation. If you don't get support and you have to pay for it, you might as well pay for proprietary software that you can get support from. And maybe that's fine! Maybe we shouldn't let companies use the software at all . But that woul…

No, but they can change the licence to indicate it cannot be used for displaying "data agregations" (like the one FB does), that way forcing those wanting to use the OSM data plus that of their quality asurance to either not using OSM data or to make their QA data public (hoping they will chose the latter) which would in deed benefit us all

Re: Should you contribute open data to OpenStreetMap?

#60
> They employ nobody in the OSM community.

Malone keeps saying this but I don’t think it means what he says it is.

Those large entities employ lots of people who add to OSM. Not only do they add content but by his own description they do QC and add other new features and support.

Their contributions are no different (except in magnitude) than a single, tiny contribution I might make, yet presumably that would make me “part of the community” but not them?

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