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Systemd 250 Released

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Re: Systemd 250 Released

#51

Work hard and solve a big, complex set of problems. Solve them well. Offer the solution as free open source. Work some more to offer extra functionality and fix the bugs. Become the internet's villain. Come up with a commercial solution to a simple problem. Ex: file sharing or password management. Make it slow, insecure, privacy violating, lose people's data. Make millions, become a hero.

You make a valid observation. However I doubt that most Systemd haters are champions of commercial bloat. If I had to generalize, I'd assume that they dislike both.

Half of systemd's problems are coming from human aspects rather than technical.

I'm too tired to write them all over again, but here's a rundown, from me.

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25611149

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27651567

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#52
post #30

Work hard and solve a big, complex set of problems. Solve them well. Offer the solution as free open source. Work some more to offer extra functionality and fix the bugs. Become the internet's villain. Come up with a commercial solution to a simple problem. Ex: file sharing or password management. Make it slow, insecure, privacy violating, lose people's data. Make millions, become a hero.

As someone who has learned Linux/Unix just the past few months using a systemd based distro, I find it a breeze to use. Great documentation, FOSS, and really easy to pick up. I just don’t understand why there is so much dislike thrown around when that energy can be focused elsewhere on truly bad behavior/software. And from my understanding, there are distros out there that don’t use systemd for those who dislike it t…

I'm an old school unixhead who's nonetheless made his peace with systemd because, honestly, it makes lots of things work way better than most previously available solutions did.

Thing is, it also forcibly changed a bunch of things by introducing defaults that were not at all what people expected. They might have been better overall, but it still caused some nasty surprises.

Let me try and explain a bit more concretely -

An easy example (not a hypothetical one, btw): if you have a physical server with multiple hard drives and one of them doesn't start, old school unix would boot everything it -could- boot anyway. SystemD changed that behaviour to "if a filesystem doesn't come up, and you don't set an option to tell systemd it's ok if that doesn't happen, don't finish booting".

Now, imagine you're somebody who has a physical server somewhere that has a big cache disk that you use a cheap drive for because if it fails, well, you've lost some cache space. Now imagine your server used to run a pre-systemd setup, and when you upgraded it to a systemd using version of the same distro you left all your settings as-is because everything seemed to be working fine. Now ... imagine that drive dies during a reboot ... and so the server doesn't finish booting, and so you can't even ssh in to it to figure out what's going on, and the only way to figure it out is to get physically in front of the console.

If that server is four hours' drive away, you might not be very impressed.

I still, overall, think systemd is pretty nice. But while some of the people annoyed with it are annoyed with it on a purely aesthetic/principle sort of basis, there are definitely some decisions the authors made that caused -very- surprising results for people who had been running servers for years already, and some of the dislike being thrown around is very much understandable.

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#53

This week I have just learned that systemd has an alternative scheduler in addition to cron. At this rate systemd will probably become another new OS on top of Linux similar to Android.

You mean systemd timers? https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Systemd/Timers They were always there, and they work much better than cron in my experience (you're not forced to use cron expressions because it supports things like human-readable time formats; they can randomize startup times, which is useful for backups; they can put additional constraints (like "start only if network is available"); and they can actually…

Cron has all these features:

- single place control: crontab -e

- additional constraints: systemctl status && scirpt.sh

- randomize startup times: sleep ${RANDOM:0:MAX} && script.sh

The nice thing is that it integrates with the existing infrastructure (shell scripts). This means you don't have to add code to cron to add features.

I agree with the 10s of files in /etc/cron.daily, etc. But those are there for convenience (you can even remove them from /etc/crontab)

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#54
Congratulations to the systemd team.

I still won't use systemd, and to the extent of my ability I will fight the trend of the Linux ecosystem hard-depending on it. But it's a bit silly to be anything but grateful for open source and choice.

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#55
post #40
post #3

> The static lease DHCP server logic in systemd-networkd may now serve IP addresses outside of the configured IP pool range for the server. See, see, taking lessons from C++. So someone requested a bug, and they got it. How could that be useful?

wait, hang on - the init process now incorporates a dhcp server? why? when there are existing solutions to that problem?

no, it's not the init process, it's one of the tools in the systemd suite

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#56

Work hard and solve a big, complex set of problems. Solve them well. Offer the solution as free open source. Work some more to offer extra functionality and fix the bugs. Become the internet's villain. Come up with a commercial solution to a simple problem. Ex: file sharing or password management. Make it slow, insecure, privacy violating, lose people's data. Make millions, become a hero.

Just you wait until Lennart and his gang changes LGPL to MIT.

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#57
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has learned Linux/Unix just the past few months using a systemd based distro, I find it a breeze to use. Great documentation, FOSS, and really easy to pick up. I just don’t understand why there is so much dislike thrown around when that energy can be focused elsewhere on truly bad behavior/software. And from my understanding, there are distros out there that don’t use systemd for those who dislike it t…

Disclaimer: I _still_ like systemd. My only real big pet peeve with Systemd is the documentation is somewhat lacking..., like it's all there in the manual, but its laid out poorly and makes it hard to understand. The interaction between unit files and dependencies is also quite convoluted when you start digging into how things are ordered. There's a ton of unit file options that enable weird conditional behavior. The…

[deleted]

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#58

SystemD has something of a reputation for being a bunch of arrogant young engineers making fundamental changes to the long established status quo in order to solve clever problems that range from tiny-minority-edge-case to non-existent. It’s an absolute classic anti-pattern any industry veteran would recognise. Your new-grad engineer, top of their class and incredibly smart, spends two weeks rewriting a core system i…

systemd-homed is not intended for your single-user desktop. Don't use it.

Re: Systemd 250 Released

#60
post #6

At this point any system that is running this should not be called "UNIX derived" or "UNIX like" as systemd has subsumed all of the pre-existing architecture around system startup and management. Not arguing if that is a good or bad thing just saying we should stop putting systemd managed systems in the 'UNIX' column just like we don't put Windows NT systems in the UNIX column.

Well the name System D implies a manifest destiny to conquer System V (i.e. UNIX) because D=500 and V=5 in Roman numerals. Why else would they choose the name? Also you should call it GNU/Systemd.
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