Sen. Joe Manchin says no to $2T bill: ‘I can’t vote for it’

Post by whythre » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

syki wrote: post #42

DennisAleynikov wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, the opinions of 40million "more" americans are irrelevant in a country where 330million reside. its a big territory with a lot of different laws, borders and voting districts. gerrymandering is the enemy not the electoral college itself. in a similar vein people brought up that democrats got more individual votes and "won" the popular vote in 2016. again cool? but completely irrelevant.

It’s not irrelevant if a majority consistently feel their will is ignored. It’s not irrelevant if it leads to widespread discontent. The system set up 250 years ago is no longer sustainable. It’s needs to be changed.

Post by syki » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

whythre wrote: post #51

syki wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not irrelevant if a majority consistently feel their will is ignored. It’s not irrelevant if it leads to widespread discontent. The system set up 250 years ago is no longer sustainable. It’s needs to be changed.

The only reason our nation exists is because of the agreements made between large and small states. Rhode Island was not interested in being completely politically eclipsed by New York, and rightly so. Tyranny of the majority is still tyranny. The system set up 250 years ago was and is a wonder. When you cry out for sweeping change you ignore what happens if the transformation is prosecuted badly. Most revolutions ar…

Post by vanviegen » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

solarhoma wrote: post #14

DennisAleynikov wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

population density isn't how our legislature is set up. not sure why people always bring this incredibly irrelevant statistic up.

There is a push to water down rural votes (typically conservative) as democrats feel they are not represented fairly among the senate. Arguing that Wyoming should not have the same power in the senate that California has with many more people. The US government was not set up as a pure democracy but rather a republic. They forget the founding fathers did this to prevent a tyranny by majority. The ones arguing for abo…

Post by kergonath » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

synergy20 wrote: post #39

kergonath wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, there are plenty of healthy democracies in which all votes have the same weight, it’s trivial to demonstrate how wrong you are. “One person, one vote” might have been radical 300 years ago, but it really should not be controversial in the 21st century.

Tax and Law and Republic are the three to hold the society in order with enough individual rights for the long run. The only way I can agree on pure majority vote is that you need to qualify for it, e.g. only those who contributed to the society(taxpayers,social works, housewives raising kids,etc) can vote(disabled can vote no matter what). Voting right should be earned.

Post by votepaunchy » Sun, Dec 19, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

marricks wrote: post #11

It’s funny because he argued for a year saying he would if he got A, gets it, then says he needs B… on and on until like L then when its finally in front of him to vote he acts like he never could anyways. People like this are the skeeziest. Then again, there seems to always need to be 1 democrat who will stand in the way of getting things done everyday people want. It was Joe Lieberman when democrats last had the se…