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I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

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Re: I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

#51

Post by pkrotich »

dcow wrote: post #17

Can someone help me understand the ethical problem here? If I as an ordinary citizen contacted the webmaster with a similar worded email, the result would have been the same. The fact is that this “experiment” did not create any more or additional stress than is created for normal citizens/businesses simply engaging in normal legal activities. If submitting such a request has the potential to cause such undue stress,…

It absolutely looked like a legal treat of some sort. The study is now suspended and the investigator is even admitting they errored [0].

[0] https://privacystudy.cs.princeton.edu

Re: I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

#52

Post by tantalor »

avalys wrote: post #40
progman32 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you're making an assumption that "normal citizens" receive legal threats regularly? I can count the legal threats I've received on one hand, and I can assure you the days following them were, unfortunately, quite unpleasant (fortunately nothing came of it). Stress aside, part of the problem is the very real possibility of a subject wasting money on hiring a lawyer.

I didn't see a legal threat in the original email.

> ... as required by Section 1798.130 of the California Civil Code.

Re: I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

#53

Post by perihelions »

It looks like multiple people consulted lawyers because of the implied legal threat. OP isn't the only one who took this somewhat seriously.

Attorney: "is this Princeton privacy study email that one of my clients received legitimate?"

https://twitter.com/jdigiacomo/status/1470756584435249152

"Wow. I actually contacted my attorney over this email inquiry to see if I actually needed to respond and if so, how."

https://twitter.com/NerdPress/status/1472340768933113859

"our clients have spent around $10k aggregate trying to understand what these requests related to, and whether this was a coordinated mass phishing attempt"

https://twitter.com/FDTaisce/status/1471970527132618757

An attorney in Switzerland: "Wir wurden von Mandantinnen und Mandanten gefragt, wie sie auf diese E-Mails mit Fragen nach ihrem Umgang mit datenschutzrechtlichen Anfragen reagieren sollen." ("We have been asked by clients how they should respond to these emails with questions about how they handle privacy-related inquiries." (DeepL))

https://steigerlegal.ch/2021/12/16/datenschutz-gefaelschte-a...

Three *different* attorneys in this thread report having clients reach out to them:

(1) "As outside privacy counsel, these are so frustrating. First one I saw cited being a CA resident so more alarming. Now for those interested\able to learn it's more time and education as they think any request must be scams now. Plus how many clients won't reach out next time?"

(2) "As in-house counsel, my initial gut instinct was that it was someone who was trying to entrap us - hoping we would make a mistake so they could sue. (I don't have much faith in human nature, I suppose.) So I sent it to outside counsel to be safe. Waste of time and resources."

(3) "Same here. We deal with a lot of professional litigants and I was looking for the angle (it was GDPR not CCPA, so was worried about a private right of action being brought)"

https://twitter.com/JFuchsKC/status/1471921893758443526

https://twitter.com/DanielleVEsq/status/1472105731474137094

https://twitter.com/SOliverLaw/status/1472288392889073665

(Sorry for the spaghetti comment: I got a bit carried away).

Re: I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

#54

Post by walrus01 »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #48

A lot of people mocking the author or others for being scared and worried are basically blaming the victim here, and I would like them to stop. The nature of legal practices in the USA is such that the answers to "Are you totally in the clear legally?" and "Will you lose significant amounts of money proving in random courts that you are in the clear legally?" are often both yes. As a result, any researchers who send…

Absolutely agreed. In the present USA legal system, even if you win a resounding "victory" against an absolutely frivolous civil litigant, you are often left with significant legal costs and wasted days of your own time that you could have spent doing something else with your life.

Re: I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

#56

Post by s1artibartfast »

avalys wrote: post #36

I don't see anything unethical about sending an email asking website operators how they comply with their obligations under various privacy laws. If you are not subject to those laws, you can reply as such. And if you are subject to those laws - it is a valid question! If you find the prospect of receiving this email so horrifying, perhaps your real problem is with the laws themselves?

So you see nothing wrong with the deception of pretending to present an honest inquiry when in fact you are not?

If this came from a real person and was a real question then of course it would be ethical, but it wasnt

Re: I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

#57

Post by walrus01 »

ZhangSWEFAANG wrote: post #11
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #8

> My name is Maya Mishina, and I am a resident of Novosibirsk, Russia. If i received such an email, I would mark it as spam and move on with my life. Why did this blogger take it seriously? Does she take other forms of spam so seriously? I do feel for her stress and anxiety, but I also have to question her mental ability to filter noise. Life must be quite stressful for her overall.

This is unlike traditional spam in the sense that it feels more legitimate.

In the modern scam era we live in, it somehow seems more legit because it mentions something in a specific article of legal code, and isn't demanding payment of your IRS taxes in iTunes gift cards.

Re: I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

#58

Post by dcow »

progman32 wrote: post #33
dcow wrote: post #17

Can someone help me understand the ethical problem here? If I as an ordinary citizen contacted the webmaster with a similar worded email, the result would have been the same. The fact is that this “experiment” did not create any more or additional stress than is created for normal citizens/businesses simply engaging in normal legal activities. If submitting such a request has the potential to cause such undue stress,…

Perhaps you're making an assumption that "normal citizens" receive legal threats regularly? I can count the legal threats I've received on one hand, and I can assure you the days following them were, unfortunately, quite unpleasant (fortunately nothing came of it). Stress aside, part of the problem is the very real possibility of a subject wasting money on hiring a lawyer.

To be clear, I find the ability for anybody to threaten anybody else with a lawyer to be problematic for many reasons. The legal system in the US sucks and I would love to see some sort of social remedy to this type of lopsided interaction and abuse of power. If that happened in this case that’s part of my question: perhaps there’s noting wrong with the “experiment” itself but rather with wording that might imply legal consequence?

However I’m dubious that there was even a threat of a lawyer. The request simply asked for a prompt response as required by law. That’s quite a stones throw from “I’ll sue you and take you for everything you own if you don’t reply”.

BTW, if you are actually being threatened by a lawyer then they send certified mail or show up at your door. And in terms of the webmaster almost contacting one, no lawyer is going to take your money before talking for 5-15 min to even figure out what the issue is. And even if you paid for 30 min of a lawyer's time, then they would promptly inform you that you can ignore such requests since you’re not a business.

Again, what’s the ethical problem here?

Re: I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

#59

Post by Sebb767 »

etataetaet wrote: post #24
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #8

> My name is Maya Mishina, and I am a resident of Novosibirsk, Russia. If i received such an email, I would mark it as spam and move on with my life. Why did this blogger take it seriously? Does she take other forms of spam so seriously? I do feel for her stress and anxiety, but I also have to question her mental ability to filter noise. Life must be quite stressful for her overall.

I'm sorry but how can you make the assumption that "life must be quite stressful for her overall."? We know almost nothing about her life or what kind of situation she is in... It seems a little weird to make such large assumptions about anyone who you don't personally know!

This week only I've been threatened to have videos taken from my webcam released - unless I pay a ransom - and I was asked to pay due bills in the attached zip file twice. And that's only what my spam filter did not catch.

Given that they were targeted here, this person has a public mail address, so it's very likely they receive similar spam. Given that and the observation that they seem to be stressed by spam, this seems like a plausible assumption.

Re: I was part of a human subject research study without my consent

#60

Post by [deleted] »

dcow wrote: post #17

Can someone help me understand the ethical problem here? If I as an ordinary citizen contacted the webmaster with a similar worded email, the result would have been the same. The fact is that this “experiment” did not create any more or additional stress than is created for normal citizens/businesses simply engaging in normal legal activities. If submitting such a request has the potential to cause such undue stress,…

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