Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Sugary Secret of Self-Control

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 62 posts

Re: The Sugary Secret of Self-Control

#51

Post by zcid »

tomlin wrote: post #48
sliverstorm wrote: post #6

As far as food & overeating/unhealthy foods- I've learned you don't necessarily need self-control. You can stop caring instead. That's how I wound up after going hungry for months, and got used to it. It's frighteningly effective. Right now, the last meal I remember was about 20 hours ago, and the last meal before that was another 20-24 ago. My stomach is aching, but it doesn't bother me. Of course, this is not witho…

While your timespans are perhaps a little long, I adopted a similar approach, which allowed me to lose 70lbs. Basically, I stopped looking forward to food and began seeing food as fuel. Like having to re-fuel your car, eating sometimes got to be more of a chore than a delight. Our society looks at food as an indulgence, when perhaps it would be better to look at it as an energy source. The Western mantra of "eat the…

This is very similar to what I tell people asking me about weight loss: "You can't have an emotional attachment to food." I can't remember where I first heard that, but I think it states the idea perfectly.

Re: The Sugary Secret of Self-Control

#52

Post by mechnik »

zcid wrote: post #50
tokenadult wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the links. I'm always interested to hear about Dweck's latest research. From the submitted article, this passage is food for thought: "The disasters reveal a limitation of the muscle metaphor: certain evolutionarily prepared drives seem to withstand even the most bulked-up powers of will. The authors note that people with the highest levels of self-control are only slightly better than average at controlli…

I think that the problem is that we are looking at "willpower" as a general skill when we should see it as more specific to the task. I have built up quite a bit of resistance to certain desires like food and television, but I still flounder when it comes to other areas of my life. I would be very interested in long-term studies that attempt to build willpower in just one area and then examine the individual's abilit…

According to the OP (Pinker's book review) "He enrolled students in regimens that required them to keep track of their eating, exercise regularly, use a mouse with their weaker hand or (one that really gave them a workout) speak in complete sentences and without swearing. After several weeks, the students were more resistant to ego depletion in the lab and showed greater self-control in their lives. They smoked, drank and snacked less, watched less television, studied more and washed more dishes."

Re: The Sugary Secret of Self-Control

#53

Post by Natsu »

sliverstorm wrote: post #23
dualogy wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Starving for hours and ignoring your body's warning signals? Whatever happened to "don't eat less, eat better" -- "don't reduce quantity, increase quality"? If you enjoy eating and don't enjoy the sounds made by a hungry stomach... you can munch down as many of those fresh veggies as you like and will feel all the better for it, while not gaining a pound. Something to consider. Not the same for fruits as they do cont…

I'm not saying it's the right way to do things. I don't think that starving myself is GOOD. A hungry stomach just doesn't bother me anymore , so I have to proactively think about food. That may seem nonsensical to you if you are still deeply in touch with your sense of hunger, but take me at my word. I didn't choose for it to be this way, I just didn't have much money for a while.

> A hungry stomach just doesn't bother me anymore, so I have to proactively think about food.

I know what you mean. I drive people crazy when they realize that I can work through lunch and simply not miss it.

Re: The Sugary Secret of Self-Control

#54

Post by mechnik »

hammock wrote: post #49
mechnik wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recent findings by Carol Dweck and others challenge the prevalent notion that willpower is an exhaustible AND finite resource. She found that the subjects who believed that exercising one's willpower strengthens it rather than depletes it actually increased their willpower. One's mindset was the key. http://www.stanford.edu/~gwalton/home/In_the_News_files/Job,...

She found that the subjects who believed that exercising one's willpower strengthens it rather than depletes it actually increased their willpower. That to me doesn't discredit the notion that willpower is an exhaustible, finite resource. It merely illuminates a neat psychological trick for increasing your willpower.

There is a belief that willpower is finite and exhaustible and nothing will change how much willpower one has, that one cannot increase one's willpower. For example, you only have 25 cents worth of willpower at a certain time and if you spent all of it on not eating a cookie you will not have any left for something else. I suppose if a "trick" increases willpower that proves that willpower is not finite and exhaustible. Clearly there are limits but one's mindset counts for performance.

Re: The Sugary Secret of Self-Control

#55

Post by kragen »

boredguy8 wrote: post #8
sliverstorm wrote: post #6

As far as food & overeating/unhealthy foods- I've learned you don't necessarily need self-control. You can stop caring instead. That's how I wound up after going hungry for months, and got used to it. It's frighteningly effective. Right now, the last meal I remember was about 20 hours ago, and the last meal before that was another 20-24 ago. My stomach is aching, but it doesn't bother me. Of course, this is not witho…

"Easier said than done, I know, but the thing I find helps most people is to understand that you can't refrain from doing something you like. You can, however, change the person you are into the kind of person who doesn't even like that stuff. Sugar Smacks still taste the same as they did under Carter, but I don't know anybody who still eats them. Do the same for soda."

For the other readers who are wondering what Sugar Smacks are, Wikipedia tells me they've been called Honey Smacks for a long time now, with a brief period of being just Smacks. I don't think I've ever had them. My parents were not big fans of sugary breakfasts, and Honey Smacks are apparently the sugariest of the sugary, over 50% sugar by weight!

Re: The Sugary Secret of Self-Control

#56

Post by csomar »

CMartucci wrote: post #36

Willpower is not a resource, and glucose is not willpower fuel. See the following links: http://www.epjournal.net/blog/2011/08/willpower-is-not-a-res... http://www.epjournal.net/blog/2011/08/glucose-is-not-willpow... http://www.epjournal.net/blog/2011/09/willpower-meets-the-co... http://whatblag.com/2011/08/04/poverty-and-willpower-as-reso...

This is interesting. Offer someone -untrained- $1million to not to connect for 30 days and they'll (most of them) do it. A trained person may fail to do that without the incentive.

Now offer an untrained person to lift 100 Kg with the same incentive. They'll fail whatever the cash is. A trained person with the right physic power will do it. No incentives required.

Conclusion: will power is not a muscle. Will Power is already strong, at its max. It's not about improving it, it's about creating incentives for it to perform. It's putting yourself in the right environment and making a strong plan.

Re: The Sugary Secret of Self-Control

#58

Post by hammock »

mechnik wrote: post #54
hammock wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She found that the subjects who believed that exercising one's willpower strengthens it rather than depletes it actually increased their willpower. That to me doesn't discredit the notion that willpower is an exhaustible, finite resource. It merely illuminates a neat psychological trick for increasing your willpower.

There is a belief that willpower is finite and exhaustible and nothing will change how much willpower one has, that one cannot increase one's willpower. For example, you only have 25 cents worth of willpower at a certain time and if you spent all of it on not eating a cookie you will not have any left for something else. I suppose if a "trick" increases willpower that proves that willpower is not finite and exhaustib…

My point was the fact that a resource is finite does not mean you can't grow it. If I am a child with a second-grade education- I have a finite amount of knowledge, but there are "tricks" (aka education, development) that I can do to increase my knowledge. If I have a pond in my backyard, there is a finite amount of water it can hold, but if I dredge out a few more hectares, it will store even more groundwater and its capacity has increased while still remaining finite (I cannot drink from it forever).

Re: The Sugary Secret of Self-Control

#59

Post by mechnik »

hammock wrote: post #58
mechnik wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a belief that willpower is finite and exhaustible and nothing will change how much willpower one has, that one cannot increase one's willpower. For example, you only have 25 cents worth of willpower at a certain time and if you spent all of it on not eating a cookie you will not have any left for something else. I suppose if a "trick" increases willpower that proves that willpower is not finite and exhaustib…

My point was the fact that a resource is finite does not mean you can't grow it. If I am a child with a second-grade education- I have a finite amount of knowledge, but there are "tricks" (aka education, development) that I can do to increase my knowledge. If I have a pond in my backyard, there is a finite amount of water it can hold, but if I dredge out a few more hectares, it will store even more groundwater and it…

I understand your point about the meaning of 'finite'. My point simply is that those who primarily viewed willpower as a limited resource, finite and exhaustible, did not perform as well as those who believed that exercising willpower increases it. It is not about the nuances of a certain word but how certain attitudes affect performance. Dweck wrote a popular book 'Mindset' where she contrasts 'fixed' mindset with 'growth' mindset. Perhaps 'fixed' makes more sense than 'finite' here. More information at http://mindsetonline.com/

Re: The Sugary Secret of Self-Control

#60

Post by sunchild »

dualogy wrote: post #20
sliverstorm wrote: post #6

As far as food & overeating/unhealthy foods- I've learned you don't necessarily need self-control. You can stop caring instead. That's how I wound up after going hungry for months, and got used to it. It's frighteningly effective. Right now, the last meal I remember was about 20 hours ago, and the last meal before that was another 20-24 ago. My stomach is aching, but it doesn't bother me. Of course, this is not witho…

Starving for hours and ignoring your body's warning signals? Whatever happened to "don't eat less, eat better" -- "don't reduce quantity, increase quality"? If you enjoy eating and don't enjoy the sounds made by a hungry stomach... you can munch down as many of those fresh veggies as you like and will feel all the better for it, while not gaining a pound. Something to consider. Not the same for fruits as they do cont…

At this point, the "science" of nutrition is so muddled and tainted by commercial interests as to be essentially without any credibility whatsoever. Pop science articles like the the OP NYT.com link only add to the mess – using absurd metaphors like muscle fatigue for willpower, and talking about self-control as an exhaustible "resource" based on some no-doubt extremely qualitative and subjective study.

Health information in western cultures is very low signal to noise.

Post reply on HN