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Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

en.chessbase.com

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Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#51

Post by usehackernews »

manquer wrote: post #32
switz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chess is in many ways, the perfect esport. I'm sure I'll take some flack for calling it an esport due to its rich history and the fact that it was not originally a "video game", but in 2021 those lines are blurred. In my opinion, it checks all the boxes.

Perfect ? It is the one of easiest online games to cheat! Very hard to play professionally online when it so easy to cheat . Online chess( pandemic apart) would never be considered equivalent to tournaments over a board

Its easy to cheat, but also easy to get caught. You can’t cheat yourself to a high score.

The same engines that people cheat with are the same engines used to detect cheating. If you’re using an engine to play your moves, you’ll be caught very quickly.

Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#52

Post by CamelCaseName »

scbrg wrote: post #34
CalChris wrote: post #4

Game 6 was pretty tight and pretty good. You have to realize they were playing the last moves after midnight and they were playing them on increment, 30 seconds a move, basically rapid. Nepo's 'blunder' is an extremely natural looking move, 130. .. Qe6 and it only loses in 49 moves. But as was predicted before the match, if Nepo lost one it'd be an avalanche. Nepo only squeezed in because the Candidates tournament wa…

So, for anybody else who wasn't familiar with the term GOAT , and don't want to spend minutes fighting search engines all too eager to tell them about goat cheese, it apparently means to Greatest of All Time . Please explain obscure or very domain specific acronyms.

My experience using Google:

"goat meaning" -> first result

"goat acronym" -> first result

"goat definition" -> first result

Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#53

Post by shawnz »

wraptile wrote: post #39
switz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chess is in many ways, the perfect esport. I'm sure I'll take some flack for calling it an esport due to its rich history and the fact that it was not originally a "video game", but in 2021 those lines are blurred. In my opinion, it checks all the boxes.

I'd completely disagree with you here. Chess is only there because of history but it checks none of successful esport checkmarks. One might even argue that it has been a "solved" game for decades which is the opposite of what you want for a successful esports game. One of the most important esport features is updates be it meta changes or new patches. That's why our current esport games are so huge even though they a…

Chess does have meta changes, though. Especially as chess engines become more advanced, like with the release of AlphaZero, different strategies have become popularized as a result

Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#54

Post by ekabod »

1123581321 wrote: post #40
ekabod wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think Nepo would be at that level without mental endurance?

How else would you explain the moves well below his level that objectively cost him? He is a great player but does not have Magnus’ mental and emotional consistency. Not everyone advances to the top in chess with the same combination of inner traits. This is also seen in other competitions where humans must perform at their absolute best in all aspects to reliably win.

Saying Nepo has less mental endurance than Carlsen is not the same as saying he doesn't have any as this poster wrote.

Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#55

Post by semi-extrinsic »

wraptile wrote: post #39
switz wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chess is in many ways, the perfect esport. I'm sure I'll take some flack for calling it an esport due to its rich history and the fact that it was not originally a "video game", but in 2021 those lines are blurred. In my opinion, it checks all the boxes.

I'd completely disagree with you here. Chess is only there because of history but it checks none of successful esport checkmarks. One might even argue that it has been a "solved" game for decades which is the opposite of what you want for a successful esports game. One of the most important esport features is updates be it meta changes or new patches. That's why our current esport games are so huge even though they a…

Chess is "solved by computers" today, as in they will outplay the best humans, but that's in part because chess provides you with perfect information about the enemy's position at all time.

Most (all?) esport games use fog-of-war (RTS) or level design (FPS) or some other mechanism that hides the enemy from you. Without that, esports games have also been "solved by computers" for decades.

There is of course a chess variant with fog-of-war (dark chess). As far as I know, computers don't beat humans at that.

Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#56

Post by dmurray »

cyberferret wrote: post #7
v64 wrote: post #2

This match was notable for a number of reasons: 1) Game 6 lasted 136 moves, making it the longest game in world championship history, surpassing the 124 move game 5 of Korchnoi-Karpov in 1978. 2) Carlsen's victory in game 6 was also the first decisive match game (excluding tiebreakers) since game 10 of Carlsen's defense against Karjakin in 2016. Carlsen's defense against Caruana in 2018 featured 12 draws before movin…

Re: Your point (1), I read somewhere that the match took longer than watching the entire "Queen's Gambit" NetFlix series start to finish. (To put it in perspective for readers who may not realise how much time is spent at the board during these sorts of games).

The 6th game alone took longer than The Queen's Gambit.

(This is probably what you meant, but in chess a game means a single contest, while a match always means a series of games between two players or two teams).

Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#57

Post by WoahNoun »

scbrg wrote: post #34
CalChris wrote: post #4

Game 6 was pretty tight and pretty good. You have to realize they were playing the last moves after midnight and they were playing them on increment, 30 seconds a move, basically rapid. Nepo's 'blunder' is an extremely natural looking move, 130. .. Qe6 and it only loses in 49 moves. But as was predicted before the match, if Nepo lost one it'd be an avalanche. Nepo only squeezed in because the Candidates tournament wa…

So, for anybody else who wasn't familiar with the term GOAT , and don't want to spend minutes fighting search engines all too eager to tell them about goat cheese, it apparently means to Greatest of All Time . Please explain obscure or very domain specific acronyms.

It is neither obscure nor domain specific. Unless you consider all of sports to be domain specific.

Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#58

Post by magpi3 »

MVorlm wrote: post #47
scbrg wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, for anybody else who wasn't familiar with the term GOAT , and don't want to spend minutes fighting search engines all too eager to tell them about goat cheese, it apparently means to Greatest of All Time . Please explain obscure or very domain specific acronyms.

GOAT isn't obscure or domain specific and is a very common acronym used online for almost anything competitive and doesn't need any more explanation.

Obviously it did in this case. I think the use of GOAT is common in the U.S. but not elsewhere, and HN draws an international community.

Re: Magnus Carlsen retains title after winning lopsided match

#59

Post by tromp »

usehackernews wrote: post #51
manquer wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perfect ? It is the one of easiest online games to cheat! Very hard to play professionally online when it so easy to cheat . Online chess( pandemic apart) would never be considered equivalent to tournaments over a board

Its easy to cheat, but also easy to get caught. You can’t cheat yourself to a high score. The same engines that people cheat with are the same engines used to detect cheating. If you’re using an engine to play your moves, you’ll be caught very quickly.

It depends on how you use the engine. Obviously, picking its best move or nearly best move when they're close in value, will get you caught.

But suppose you sample from the engine's ranked moves to have some decent ACPL (average centipawn loss) error rate. Just a slightly lower rate than you'd have on your own.

If you further bias your sample to moves to that look reasonable to you, then I don't see how you'd get caught.

Current engines may not have the right support for such sampling, but it wouldn't be hard to implement, e.g. with a private fork of Stockfish.

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