WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US • Hacker News Board

Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#51

Post by reginold » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 4:42 PM UTC

leodriesch wrote: post #10

Why crypto? WhatsApp users are not particular tech-savvy, why not just use Fiat? The use of crypto in here just makes it more difficult to understand for the end user, or am I missing something?

There are four options for Facebook to add payments:

1. Their own Paypal-like system

2. Partner with a Paypal

3. Their own cryptocurrency (ie Libra)

4. Partner with a cryptocurrency

Do I have that right? And for some reason #4 allows them to be global and not face antitrust concerns in the USA.

Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#52

Post by RL_Quine » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 4:47 PM UTC

codethief wrote: post #40

When Signal integrated MobileCoin last year (in the UK), there was a lot of uproar here on HN – some well-founded ("Why equip a slick and lightweight standalone app for privacy-preserving messaging with payments, a feature that adds bloat and will likely attract government regulation and oversight?"), some less so ("The Signal developers are just scamming everyone"). Given WhatsApp's move toward a WeChat-like app now…

There's nothing to reconsider, MobileCoin/Signal is still a terrible idea and was responsible for them withholding their open source code, for a year, with absolutely no explanation at the time or in retrospective. It's nothing but a money grab with zero expectation that this is something users want, or will use.

Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#53

Post by fragmede » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

thehappypm wrote: post #22

xyzzy123 wrote: post #14

If you think a bit bigger and imagine a worldwide audience (basically the defining feature of whatsapp), the initial killer apps here are remittances and the ability to build out marketplaces and stores. Assume the goal is global wechat-like commerce. IMHO this is huge. The regulatory interactions will be formidable because every country will want to get its fingers into this, money and who gets it is ultimately poli…

What makes it so huge in your opinion? PayPal and Venmo and the like already make this very easy, internationally there are some challenges, but it’s not technical limitations so much as legal/compliance which doesn’t go away with blockchain.

> internationally there are some challenges

"Some challenges" is doing a lot of work there. That's like saying that a hurricane's "a bit of water". If you're in Montana and don't have any family in Florida, you can blindly ignore the hurricane as it won't affect you. But realize that's a position of great privilege. For everyone else that can't get Paypal or Venmo or even US bank account in many case, or anyone who's Internet access is solely WhatsApp and not Venmo (due to Facebook providing free access to their properties and only their properties in certain countries), this is a total game changer.

Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#54

Post by MuffinFlavored » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

exdsq wrote: post #44

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

curious, why USDP and not USDC or any of the other alternatives? also, why didn’t libra/the likes work out?

One issue with Libra was Facebook. FB has the user numbers and money to roll out a potentially successful cryptocurrency that's marketed as a currency. Regulators got scared and it got critiqued/shut down across almost every market.

why would a successful cryptocurrency scare regulators? bitcoin is "successful". coinbase and popular wallets are "regulated" (reported to IRS, etc.)

Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#55

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

vmception wrote: post #47

reginold wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Novi site for the Whatsapp partnership says this: > "When you add money to your Novi account, we convert it to USDP (Pax Dollar), a stable digital currency issued by Paxos Trust Company, a regulated financial institution. USDP is designed to have a stable value relative to the US dollar. So on Novi, 1 USDP is equal to 1 US dollar." To me that implies it's done on chain...I guess it could just be in their centrali…

Protip: this is how Tether works but people in the west dont want to believe that people in the east actually deposit fiat into bitfinex. Multiple US regulators came to the same conclusion. One regulator said “well you usually create tethers 1:1 in response to deposits the vast majority of times and vast majority of amounts, but for the brief few times you didnt at least put a disclaimer up, also here is a fine for n…

> usually create tethers 1:1 in response to deposits the vast majority of times

This as quite often been in whole round billions in the middle of the night on a weekend ...

> people in the east actually deposit fiat into bitfinex

In non-convertible RMB?

I appreciate that the demand for a way round currency controls is a big driver for cryptocurrency, but I'm still not clear how that sustainably functions.

Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#56

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:00 PM UTC

jd115 wrote: post #13

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

> Users who are paid this way receive USDP, which can be withdrawn to a bank account in its equivalent value in US dollars. I feel like I’m missing something. How is this system any different than a centralized system like PayPal or any other traditional payment system, where users have a USD balance and can withdraw it to their bank accounts? If the company secretly removed the cryptocurrency backend and replaced it…

The timing of this is not accidental and Facebook is not acting on its own accord here. This is a move by the Russian mafia/state to make it easier to evade the imminent cut-off from SWIFT and global financial networks.

Via an American company subject to the Magnitsky act?

Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#57

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

pavlov wrote: post #21

This is fundamentally a centralized system like PayPal. Most transactions never touch crypto. Meta/FB keeps some USDP at hand for those very few users who actually want to do crypto withdrawals. Facebook has been trying to get payments into WhatsApp for a long time. This is just the latest experiment to try to find something that would be acceptable to local regulators while simultaneously extracting some value from…

> This is fundamentally a centralized system like PayPal.

This is fundamentally a centralized system like wechat pay, an app you can't see in the West. If it's allowed it will be hugely successful.

Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#58

Post by vmception » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #55

vmception wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protip: this is how Tether works but people in the west dont want to believe that people in the east actually deposit fiat into bitfinex. Multiple US regulators came to the same conclusion. One regulator said “well you usually create tethers 1:1 in response to deposits the vast majority of times and vast majority of amounts, but for the brief few times you didnt at least put a disclaimer up, also here is a fine for n…

> usually create tethers 1:1 in response to deposits the vast majority of times This as quite often been in whole round billions in the middle of the night on a weekend ... > people in the east actually deposit fiat into bitfinex In non-convertible RMB? I appreciate that the demand for a way round currency controls is a big driver for cryptocurrency, but I'm still not clear how that sustainably functions.

Which doesn't inherently imply anything.

Are those country’s financial networks so primitive that a transaction message cant be sent on a weekend like in antiquated networks?

There is also other fiat than mainland RMB

Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#59

Post by leephillips » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:03 PM UTC

toast0 wrote: post #33

panarky wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you put an apostrophe in "fee's" but not in "rails"? This isn't a grammar-nazi criticism because I frequently make similar mistakes with pluralization. It strikes me that there must be some cognitive explanation for why some plurals seem to need an apostrophe when other plurals don't.

Style rules used to suggest an apostrophe for initialized items such as C.D.'s for sale. Of course, modern style rules suggest CDs for sale (but don't tell the New York Times).

The Times’ style guide would render more than one compact disc as C.D.s (no apostrophe, but with periods in intialisms).

Do you have a link to any authoritative style guide that suggested “C.D.’s”? The Times' guide (2015) demands apostrophes to pluralize single letters: “the word has two t’s”. I think that’s silly, just as their use of quotation marks rather than italics for book titles.

Here is a quote from the 2015 edition of the Style Guide:

“G.I. The colloquial term, derived from government issue, for American soldiers. The plural is G.I.s”

Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#60

Post by azinman2 » Thu, Dec 09, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #57

pavlov wrote: post #21

This is fundamentally a centralized system like PayPal. Most transactions never touch crypto. Meta/FB keeps some USDP at hand for those very few users who actually want to do crypto withdrawals. Facebook has been trying to get payments into WhatsApp for a long time. This is just the latest experiment to try to find something that would be acceptable to local regulators while simultaneously extracting some value from…

> This is fundamentally a centralized system like PayPal. This is fundamentally a centralized system like wechat pay , an app you can't see in the West. If it's allowed it will be hugely successful.

Or Apple Cash, Cash App, Venmo, Zelle, etc.