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Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

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Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#51

Post by Xylakant »

masklinn wrote: post #19
Silhouette wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The default position might be something like that but anyone writing software professionally surely has explicit provisions in their employment contract that would take precedence (as long as they hold up to any legal challenge of course).

> as long as they hold up to any legal challenge of course Which they don't because it makes no sense. Transpose to a car mechanic fixing up junkers in their spare time, does the fixed junker belong to the company? Of course not.

This is not a good analogy. A substantial chunk of the value of software is often the idea, not only the time worked on something. Ideas and inventions don’t happen on a schedule. Think of a chemist that is tasked with finding a way to synthesize a compound. He tries all day at work, and in the evening, on the couch, he’s struck by a bolt of enlightenment. Who does that idea belong to? German law would be pretty clear - to the company. And often, software is similar.

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#53

Post by joeyh »

Nothing in the APL requires he transfer the git repos to them. If they own the license, he needs to update the license and copyright statements to match reality, maybe send them a courtesy copy in a tarball or whatever. That's all.

Copyight cannot demand this ridiculous thing.

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#54

Post by _odey »

andi999 wrote: post #45
_odey wrote: post #39

I've asked this before and never got a straight answer, but I'll ask again: what exact clauses do I need to modify in the employment contract, and what exactly must they say, in order to avoid this sort of situation? (relevant to UK employment that is). If you've solved this for yourself, please tell us all how and what it's written in yours so we can do the same. Here is a link to what my previous employment contrac…

Talk to a work contract specialized lawyer. Even apart from this issue, there might be other issues in the contract, so why not alway talk to one before signing.

I would like to see something that already exists and was used successfully first, so I don't go and talk to one empty handed... It's one thing to say: "I'd like to keep ownership of code I write on my free time" and another to add "like all these others do so already" to that statement.

Maybe I could try emailing the FSF and asking for hints, as I'm registered with them to be able to contribute to emacs, and actually need to inform them about employment contracts changes and things like this in general.

But still, there must exist somebody, somewhere, that has something reasonable written in their employment contract we could use as reference.

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#55

Post by ealexhudson »

_odey wrote: post #39

I've asked this before and never got a straight answer, but I'll ask again: what exact clauses do I need to modify in the employment contract, and what exactly must they say, in order to avoid this sort of situation? (relevant to UK employment that is). If you've solved this for yourself, please tell us all how and what it's written in yours so we can do the same. Here is a link to what my previous employment contrac…

Copyright is automatically the employer's in the UK: the term is "in the course of employment", and no contractual language is required. The employer is effectively the author.

What that term means is a matter of case law, and is different if you are contracted / self-employed. Typically it is interpreted in a pro-employer manner, and if you are employed to write code then then assume that all the code you write is your employer's.

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#56

Post by quiffledwerg »

Bumble gave him a cake for five years service recently, so the company can’t be that bad really.

https://twitter.com/arkann1985/status/1446071099989663745?s=...

Surely we can overlook the whole “give us your damn open source personal projects copyright grab or you’ll be chewing on big legal problems buddy” thing given the companies generosity with cake?

The cake shows that Bumble really are good people.

Reminds me of those famous words “speak softly and carry a big cake”.

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#57

Post by _odey »

ealexhudson wrote: post #55
_odey wrote: post #39

I've asked this before and never got a straight answer, but I'll ask again: what exact clauses do I need to modify in the employment contract, and what exactly must they say, in order to avoid this sort of situation? (relevant to UK employment that is). If you've solved this for yourself, please tell us all how and what it's written in yours so we can do the same. Here is a link to what my previous employment contrac…

Copyright is automatically the employer's in the UK: the term is "in the course of employment", and no contractual language is required. The employer is effectively the author. What that term means is a matter of case law, and is different if you are contracted / self-employed. Typically it is interpreted in a pro-employer manner, and if you are employed to write code then then assume that all the code you write is y…

So does that mean there is literally nothing I can do about it? Except becoming a contractor?

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#58

Post by danschuller »

buzzwords wrote: post #47
dvhh wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will be something that we might never know Maybe juste to spite a leaving employee.

That's the worst part of it. The move has very little benefit for them.

It's massively negative.

Like the US, software developers are in massive demand in the UK. If you see this story, are you going to bother going through the interview process here, or apply to any of the hundreds of other companies that haven't publicly demonstrated terrible leadership.

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#59

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

noduerme wrote: post #34
elric wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the contract before you sign it. Don't work for companies that include any clauses what you can or cannot do in your free time (excluding reasonable exceptions, such as not directly competing with $employer). This sort of greed/zealotry on the side of employers is why some FOSS projects are such a pain to contribute to (i.e. anything that's part of the Eclipse Foundation). You pretty much have to sign your name…

This. I developed a very large viral kind of game site that was acquired by Fox. I was an hourly dev and I was the only dev, working for a few money guys who made a bunch by paying me to develop it and then selling it literally without informing me. So I went from maintaining it for them (as one of several jobs) to suddenly being called by Fox to hand over the source code and also to sign a contract which said they o…

I am curious. Do you think it was just the 'how' that got this result? More specifically, if they opened with an actual money offer or grudgingly moved to that point eventually, do you think you would sell it. Or was the relationship kinda strained to begin with.

Re: Bumble claims IP rights on employee's open-source libs

#60

Post by jiveturkey »

_odey wrote: post #39

I've asked this before and never got a straight answer, but I'll ask again: what exact clauses do I need to modify in the employment contract, and what exactly must they say, in order to avoid this sort of situation? (relevant to UK employment that is). If you've solved this for yourself, please tell us all how and what it's written in yours so we can do the same. Here is a link to what my previous employment contrac…

Search for 'california assignment of inventions' as well as 'california assignment of inventions template'. The first hit for the latter is currently

https://launchtothrive.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Thrive...

which has a great exhibit B you can attach. Reword it to reference the CA statute but to be clear that it shall apply to you regardless of residence in CA.

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