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A $5B hoard of aluminum

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Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#51
post #29

the aluminium industry consumed 6% of all global coal-fired electricity in 2019 – more coal-fired electricity than is generated in the whole of Europe – and is actually becoming more reliant on coal at a time when the world is becoming less reliant on coal. https://ember-climate.org/commentary/2020/10/06/aluminium/ The aluminium sector has a pivotal role to play here. Accounting for 1.1 billion tonnes of CO2 emission…

In Europe the alternative for coal in heavy industry is natural gas and we all know how that's working out right now.

Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#52
post #30
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 1983 Honda and the aluminum shines like a mirror. It didn’t always. When I got it the metal looked dull and weather possible damaged. It is amazing what buffing it can do. From garbage to mirror finish. Very satisfying to watch aluminum being polished. The aluminum did loses some of the outer layer that had oxidizes but looks brand new once cleaned up. Looks new and has the structural integrity to be used in…

Old Airstream trailers (1950s-1990s at least) can be buffed to a mirror-like finish. Oddly, new Airstreams seem to come pre-oxidized. Not sure if this is a design choice, or if they don't use aluminum any more.

It's for manufacturability, not design... Airstreams are now a premium brand, and it's quite expensive to develop and maintain a mirror polish. Someone buying a $150k polished trailer expects it to be completely unblemished.

You can still polish it yourself, it only takes about 80 hours of manual labor...

Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#53

What form is the aluminum in these stockpiles? Bars? Giant cubes? Boullion? I have no idea how unprocessed aluminum is kept around.

Likely to be either billets or sheet ingots.

Billets: https://www.google.co.nz/search?q=%22aluminium+billets%22&tb... An example of dimensions: “Most of the produced billets by the South Aluminum Industries Complex are produced in the form of cylinders with a diameter of 280 (11 inches) and a length of 7,500 mm” and some details of their manufacturing process here: https://en.salcocompany.com/aluminum-billet/ Billets of various diameters are used in aluminium extrusion machines: https://www.aec.org/page/aluminum-extrusion-process-basics

Ingots are rolled to produce sheet, which I think is the majority usage by weight of Al: https://www.metalex.co.uk/expert-aluminium-plate-suppliers-e... “The rolling process kicks off with massive, pre-heated metal sheet ingots weighing as much as 20 tons. The ingots tend to be around six feet wide, twenty feet long and over two feet thick.”

Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#54
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm. Magnesium is anything but scarce - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium#Occurrence OTOH, it's not used in huge quantities (vs. oil, coal, iron, etc.) - so it seem plausible that China could kinda corner the market. At a reasonable cost (for them). Especially if they're the ~only country bothering to run a strategy...

Energy is scarce though. Only Chinese smelters have dolomite based production, which is much cheaper than bruteforce electrolysis.

I sense something else going on here. The mineral dolomite is hardly scarce, and the Pigeon Process (to produce magnesium from dolomite) was invented in Canada in the 1940's.

Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

really? citation?

Fire is a phenomena whereby a fuel is combined with an oxidizer to make a new product in a manner that releases heat (ie: an exothermic redox reaction). Rusting of metals fits that bill since heat is in fact released (just a super tiny amount and rather slowly), so it's _technically fire_ - although fire more commonly implies the rapid release of copious amounts of energy as part of the process.

thanks

Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#57

If people are upset by so called "dumping" - can't they just let China charge more than they would have for this aluminum? Aluminum has well known fixed costs in smelters, it's one of those products they use as an example where it may make economic sense to keep a smelter going (even if incurring losses / ) because the cost of shutdown. Ie, a potline may take up to a week just to "turn off" and a huge amount of effor…

> Ie, China could sell to other countries that are not as concerned about dumping. ... For example, why would a poor country without a local smelter even care about "dumping" - it would seem the cheap prices would be a subsidy in effect.

Because you can either be part of the group of powerful nations that rules the planet (including through various global and regional trade arrangements, international organizations, military power, sanctions, banking/finance and so on), or you can be on the outs with them and they may choose to brutalize you at some point in that case.

The US, as one example, has a lot of levers. If you decide to try to operate outside of its preferences, it can trivially wreck you if you're a small nation. China for its part increasingly swings a big influence hammer, which is why so many nations are very afraid to even offend them. If you're a stray midling country out there, you generally don't get to just do whatever you want to, even if you're not signed on to various limiting agreements around eg dumping. The more powerful nations have specific interests, a specific way they think the world should be, and they have no qualms about being randomly hypocritical (at your expense).

Even most larger nations have to be quite careful. The West is growing quite tired of Erdogan for example and they will further crash Turkey's economy (further amplify the damage Erdogan is already doing) if they think it'll help get rid of him. Turkey can rather easily be smashed at this juncture, potentially resulting in civil war, rolling instability for years or decades, quasi Syriaification.

Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#58
post #29

the aluminium industry consumed 6% of all global coal-fired electricity in 2019 – more coal-fired electricity than is generated in the whole of Europe – and is actually becoming more reliant on coal at a time when the world is becoming less reliant on coal. https://ember-climate.org/commentary/2020/10/06/aluminium/ The aluminium sector has a pivotal role to play here. Accounting for 1.1 billion tonnes of CO2 emission…

Why don’t they just like Bitcoin with electricity and use the waste heat in the electrolyte melting process?

Using electricity to heat anything is wasteful when it could be used to waste clock cycles on cryptocurrency instead, first.

Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#59
post #29

the aluminium industry consumed 6% of all global coal-fired electricity in 2019 – more coal-fired electricity than is generated in the whole of Europe – and is actually becoming more reliant on coal at a time when the world is becoming less reliant on coal. https://ember-climate.org/commentary/2020/10/06/aluminium/ The aluminium sector has a pivotal role to play here. Accounting for 1.1 billion tonnes of CO2 emission…

Why don’t they just like Bitcoin with electricity and use the waste heat in the electrolyte melting process? Using electricity to heat anything is wasteful when it could be used to waste clock cycles on cryptocurrency instead, first.

Because they're not using it for heat, they're using it for electrolysis.

Re: A $5B hoard of aluminum

#60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"at a time when the world is becoming less reliant on coal" No, we aren't becoming less reliant on coal. We should be but we aren't. Look at [1]. We actually consume more coal, oil and gas each and every year. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/energy-mix

Good link, but to be fair it looks like it's leveled off since 2011. Oil & gas are continuing to grow, as are solar & wind.

Relative numbers can be misleading and saying coal consumption has decreased is actually false. We’re not doing Mother Earth any favors by sustaining very high consumption but the average reader would believe it’s a green trend.
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