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Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

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Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#51

Post by Nextgrid »

technobabbler wrote: post #18
raxxorrax wrote: post #3

Firefox would fit neatly in the corporate world in my opinion. You can have a centrally administered configuration file and Firefox is indeed able to just use certificated from your OS. It is just a small toggle. Still, a bit of effort and maybe advertising would do wonders, because there are companies critical of Chrome that think data protection is worth more than personal advertising. I think Edge is trying to fit…

It would be easier for companies (who aren't anti Google) to administer Chrome policy via their existing Google/Gmail accounts and Google Workspace. Profiles, sync, extensions, etc. can all be centrally administered. And also deployed to Chromebooks for certain users. All without having to manage the overhead of a minority browser with Especially for any web shop... Firefox is even less relevant than Microsoft now an…

Could you name any major websites/apps that break in Firefox but not in Chrome?

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#52

Post by gjvc »

parhamn wrote: post #37

I think part of this discussion needs to be that Firefox, while open source, doesn't provide footing for the community to build browser forks the way Chromium does. This sort of open usage, ironically, feels very fitting to the spirit of Firefox, but they're not even close to Chrom(e|ium). I've been building a browser full time the past year+ (synth.app) and FF core wasn't really even an option. They've done very lit…

> ... weird chromium only behaviors that websites rely on these days to do things (and egregiously so if they detect an agent remotely resembling chrome).

This sounds like the IE6 disaster all over again.

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#53

Post by resonious »

I used to hold the same opinion: Google controls the world because everything is Blink/Chromium based! Must use Firefox to protest!

Then I looked closer look at the history of Chromium and Blink.

The reality is that a lot of the other "Chromium-based" browsers actually only use the Blink renderer. They don't use many (if any) other Chromium components other than probably V8.

In ancient times, Blink itself was a fork of Webkit. So, does that mean Apple controls everything?? But Webkit actually came from KDE's KHTML, didn't it.. Linux wins...

The kicker for me is: Blink and V8 are open source, and anyone can fork them at any time. Because of this, Microsoft, Oracle, Brave - every "Chromium" based browser vendor is contributing code. So does Google really control us that much? Blink and V8 make a rock solid browser core and are being worked on by a lot of companies, not just Google. It's like the Linux kernel - kind of a marvel of open source. Not something we need to fight against so viciously, in my opinion.

(Edit: "rock solid" might sound extreme to some... The HTML and JS specs are absurdly complex to the point where there's basically no hope of anyone implementing them from 0. There's a lot of bloat in modern web, no doubt. But if you're really worried about crazy JS features cluttering your browsing experience, you can go clone the Chromium source and pull out the crap you don't like.)

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#54

Post by traveler01 »

samhw wrote: post #38
traveler01 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would I even want to install Firefox on my families computer? The thing is, I want them to have a long term, good working solution that doesn't become a pain in my ass. Firefox isn't very stable for non-tech people, that's the sad truth. Mozilla is badly missmanaged, they are killing Mozilla and specially Firefox. Things need to change, badly.

> Firefox isn't very stable for non-tech people What does this mean?

I answered that question above.

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#55

Post by TeeWEE »

Totally agree. I was using Firefox until recently. After they announced their Rust based parallel engines I started using it.

But i stopped using it now the Mozilla Foundation is having hard times surviving....

The big problem is the fact that Google has sooo much money... We need a Twitter, a Facebook, or another company with a big cash cow to seriously support a different browser engine.

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#56

Post by jillesvangurp »

I use Firefox and am pretty happy with. It seems a lot of people are complaining/obsessing about its market share or insisting that chrome is the way to go. All not that relevant. It's fine. It has more than enough market share that most companies can't afford to ignore it. That's all that matters. As long as that's the case you can choose to use it or not. The point is that you still have a choice.

Also market share varies by region. Chrome and Safari are a bit over represented in the US and under represented in e.g. Germany.

And if people want to use edge, chromium, brave, or get their Chrome experience straight from Google, also fine. IMHO you are dependent on Google either way because it's mostly them doing the heavy lifting on the internals and setting the agenda/roadmap for that. I hear good things about Safari too. Though, I mostly use it to figure out why stuff that works in Firefox and Chrome doesn't work there. That seems to be a recurring annoyance I have to deal with.

From my point of view, having three browser engines (Chrome, Safari, and Firefox) is better than just having Chrome and Safari. At worst, it keeps the other two a bit more honest. Especially Google seems to need to have their arm twisted a lot more to actually do the right things.

If people don't like their browsers, maybe go and fix them? If you can't, pick the one that best caters to your need and be grateful for what you get for free.

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#59

Post by peakaboo »

gjvc wrote: post #52
parhamn wrote: post #37

I think part of this discussion needs to be that Firefox, while open source, doesn't provide footing for the community to build browser forks the way Chromium does. This sort of open usage, ironically, feels very fitting to the spirit of Firefox, but they're not even close to Chrom(e|ium). I've been building a browser full time the past year+ (synth.app) and FF core wasn't really even an option. They've done very lit…

> ... weird chromium only behaviors that websites rely on these days to do things (and egregiously so if they detect an agent remotely resembling chrome). This sounds like the IE6 disaster all over again.

Plenty of people said this would happen when chrome started dominating, but since people refused to switch browsers, here we are.

Re: Firefox is the alternative to a Chrome hegemony

#60

Post by technobabbler »

raxxorrax wrote: post #29
technobabbler wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be easier for companies (who aren't anti Google) to administer Chrome policy via their existing Google/Gmail accounts and Google Workspace. Profiles, sync, extensions, etc. can all be centrally administered. And also deployed to Chromebooks for certain users. All without having to manage the overhead of a minority browser with Especially for any web shop... Firefox is even less relevant than Microsoft now an…

I couldn't name you a single webapp that requires Chrome and it wouldn't fit our quality p expectations and would get booted. Apps that require a certain browser will cause problems in the future or force Chrome to become IE. Can you centrally administrate Google accounts? Because employees certainly aren't allowed to use their privat ones.

> Apps that require a certain browser will cause problems in the future or force Chrome to become IE.

It already has, sadly.

> Can you centrally administrate Google accounts? Because employees certainly aren't allowed to use their privat ones.

Yes, definitely. For non Microsoft shops, Google is a very common option (eg academia).

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