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People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

worldwidedemonstration.com

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Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#51

Post by mordae »

Febra33 wrote: post #42
ColinHayhurst wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See the table on page 23. 2nd and 3rd columns. Like all stats treat with caution - see comments on p24.

Thank you. I have just looked at the table and you seem to be right. The infection rate in the age range 30 to 80 is higher for vaccinated than unvaccinated. For the other groups it is higher in the unvaccinated populations (≤30, 80≥). It seems like vaccinated people in the age range 30 to 80 seems to behave more careless due to the fact that they are vaccinated and happen to catch the virus. At the same time I have…

There was massive underreporting of COVID cases related to job safety in Czechia. Might be similar in the UK.

I'd wager a guess that vaccinated people reported COVID to authorities more often than non-vaccinated people, because they apparently tended to comply with the recommended policy.

Unvaccinated people might have tended to treat mild COVID cases as simple colds and unless more severe symptoms developed not test or report.

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#52

Post by agentgumshoe »

defendfreedom wrote: post #50

I 100% support limiting as much as possible access to a normal life to people who don't want to get the vaccine. Yes, you're free to put the rest of us at risk because you're too afraid to get vaccinated (because fear and an inability to manage one's emotions is absolutely at the root of the antivax sentiment), but we will in response ostracize you from public life until you fulfill your civic duty. So I hope that th…

At risk of what exactly? The unvaccinated don't automatically have covid. The vaccinated can catch, and spread covid. If you are vaccinated, why are you afraid of unvaccinated people being around you, if it is only them that will be worse off?

Regardless of the ideology of the protest, you are demanding authoritarian response because you disagree. Could you see how this could have a very bad outcome down the line?

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#53

Post by headsoup »

ChrisSD wrote: post #47
agentgumshoe wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccine does not protect against infection, it only reduces that risk. The pass only says you've had the vaccine, not that you're covid negative.

I'm struggling to see your point? If someone wants to exercise their freedom of association during a pandemic they should be able to do so. I feel very strongly about this and don't like the alternative of restricting people's rights unnecessarily.

Sorry I may have misinterpreted. So the pass does actually provide live covid status (positive/negative)? That's interesting, I thought they just showed vaccine status

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#54

Post by mordae »

defendfreedom wrote: post #50

I 100% support limiting as much as possible access to a normal life to people who don't want to get the vaccine. Yes, you're free to put the rest of us at risk because you're too afraid to get vaccinated (because fear and an inability to manage one's emotions is absolutely at the root of the antivax sentiment), but we will in response ostracize you from public life until you fulfill your civic duty. So I hope that th…

You have suggested a divide: THEY are not unlike US in that THEY cannot regulate their emotions like US.

Once you have established a higher moral ground, you have proposed to ostracize THEM from public life, until they become US.

The problem is that they say we are discriminating against them, which we objectively are.

Please refrain from furthering the divide and concentrate on productive strategies to mitigate the situation. Especially if you truly believe that its an issue with emotional regulation, because these usually cannot be handled safely by piling on more pressure.

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#55

Post by djantje »

crimsonnoodle58 wrote: post #29
djantje wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If 100% of the people are vaccinated, 100% of the infections will be from vaccinated people.

It's per 100,000 people, based on their vaccination status. It's already normalised.

You are correct, I must say I didn't expect this to be the case (ofcourse I also read the footnote, but still)

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#56

Post by agentgumshoe »

akudha wrote: post #22
agentgumshoe wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's the sad thing about it all. There's a self-righteousness about those who got vaxxed 'for the greater good' even as the vaccine fails to do its job, able to hand wave away 100's of thousands of people peacefully protesting as time wasters or 'anti-vaxxers' instead of considering that maybe, just maybe there's a concern or two they should actually be thinking about. Especially when the media seems extrem…

even as the vaccine fails to do its job, Wait, I was led to believe that the vaccine doesn't necessarily stop you from catching covid, it just doesn't put you in the hospital on ventilators. If that is correct, then the vaccine IS doing its job, no?

Depends on what you think success is. Higher hospitalisation and case rates across the board with countries reintroducing restrictions doesn't sound like a success to me. And no, you can't just blame the unvaccinated when transmission is occuring readily through the vaccinated and hitting the hospitals, even if the individual outcomes are less severe.

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#57

Post by ChrisSD »

headsoup wrote: post #53
ChrisSD wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm struggling to see your point? If someone wants to exercise their freedom of association during a pandemic they should be able to do so. I feel very strongly about this and don't like the alternative of restricting people's rights unnecessarily.

Sorry I may have misinterpreted. So the pass does actually provide live covid status (positive/negative)? That's interesting, I thought they just showed vaccine status

No. I'm saying it provides vaccine information which people can use to make an informed decision.

Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I believe in individual freedom. I should have the right to choose. I should have the right to associate with who I want to associate with.

I'm really uncertain why people are so intent on taking away essential rights. Even though you may not agree with the choices people make, they should be allowed to make them.

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#58

Post by mordae »

Febra33 wrote: post #46
headsoup wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we force gastric bands on everyone instead to stop this obesity pandemic, the death toll is unbearable any longer. That sound 'trendy' for you? Just need to media to drum up all the fear about how eating crap is contagious and you eating less saves the lives of others who get your excess food. Still trendy?

As someone who would enforce vaccination certificates, I would kick such people out of the healthcare system or make them pay more for living obese unhealthy lives.

Hey, as an obese ADHD person in a country that does not really treat ADHD I would advise against that policy. My overeating is a coping mechanism, not a choice.

It is much harder to take care of yourself when you have less money, also. Typical example from the US is eating cheap, subsidized burgers instead of healthier veggies.

Maybe tackling the stress from the "modern" capitalist lifestyle might help everyone to lead a healthier life. :-)

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#59

Post by Febra33 »

agentgumshoe wrote: post #48
Febra33 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I have just looked at the table and you seem to be right. The infection rate in the age range 30 to 80 is higher for vaccinated than unvaccinated. For the other groups it is higher in the unvaccinated populations (≤30, 80≥). It seems like vaccinated people in the age range 30 to 80 seems to behave more careless due to the fact that they are vaccinated and happen to catch the virus. At the same time I have…

The problem is, the vaccinated are still dying and going to hospital in increasing numbers while also (if the lancet etc are correct) carrying higher viral load and spreading the virus faster. It's not clear the vaccine end goal is a net benefit if the virus is not stopped, while also risking for evolution of hotter virus variants. The shame is that the unvaccinated are treated as some lower class almost criminals, w…

I just think that it's a shame so many resources go to waste into treating infected unvaccinated people (they have a higher chance of ending up in the hospital) when we could redirect those resources to people that can't avoid hospitalisation with something as easy as getting a vaccine. Many scientists have been saying for months now that the vaccine might not be that effective in protecting against an infection but that it surely helps in not ending up in the hospital. I would have absolutely no problem with people refusing the vaccine if they didn't end up putting the healthcare system at risk. My home country of Romania is plagues by these cases and I have relatives that ended up having to wait for at least 3 to 4 hours for a broken bone that would've been handled in no longer than 20 minutes before. People I know, people with cancer need to postpone their operations since hospitals are working at maximum capacity. With that being said, we are living in extreme situations right now and action is needed. Vaccines might not be THAT effective in preventing infections (since people just go about their lives after getting the jab), but it surely helps with not overflowing the hospitals.

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#60

Post by headsoup »

Febra33 wrote: post #46
headsoup wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we force gastric bands on everyone instead to stop this obesity pandemic, the death toll is unbearable any longer. That sound 'trendy' for you? Just need to media to drum up all the fear about how eating crap is contagious and you eating less saves the lives of others who get your excess food. Still trendy?

As someone who would enforce vaccination certificates, I would kick such people out of the healthcare system or make them pay more for living obese unhealthy lives.

You'll be up for review shortly, here is your list of 'healthy' substances as declared by the health minister. Deviating from this list is considered unhealthy and you shall be scheduled for gastric band surgery and excluded until that time. (yes I'm being deliberately extreme :p)

Do you see how using such a narrow lens could be unwise? How many boosters are you willing to tolerate to maintain your certificate, 2, 5, 10? How about we make them a monthly requirement, any issues?

The certificate does not stop you catching or spreading covid, but it will make you feel more 'safe' and better about yourself.

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