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Safari Ruined My Tuesday

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Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#51

Post by kyleee »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #23
reaperducer wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Safari, flaws and all, is pretty much the only browser that has any weight against Chrome. Tell your manager that you want the web site to support Firefox or Brave or something else, and they'll tell you it's a waste of time. Tell them that the web site won't work on their MacBook, and it's a four-alarm fire. In a lot of ways, I wish Safari would deviate even more from Google's "standards" just so that maybe…

> I think Safari, flaws and all, is pretty much the only browser that has any weight against Chrome. This is a terrible argument. That an inferior, proprietary, broken browser made by a company trying to cripple the web to protect their lucrative walled garden should be more popular in order to prevent Google from having more market share just for reasons? Chrome became popular and is popular because it works. It's c…

It's more reality than an argument, apple has a lot of high end users that most companies don't want to alienate whereas there is much less worry about breaking things for lower market share browsers like Firefox, etc.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#52

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #12
blondin wrote: post #11

i sympathize with the author. safari and browsers aside, there is something bigger going on. there is a massive disconnect between applications users and makers nowadays. i have started to think that they a) don't care b) have misaligned priorities c) have weird notions of "acceptable" errors. i have a long list of applications that break every time there is an update. even UX updates introduce bugs nowadays. i have…

Why should any developer care about supporting Safari? Chrome and Firefox support most (all?) of the current web standards. Every site I use works on both. I don't hear any concerns about Brave, Edge or Opera either. How is it that Safari is the only broken browser these days? As for 'acceptable' errors, I find software to be pretty reliable these days. I remember way more things being messed up back in the day...

Erm. So it works on Blink and Gecko... And Blink, and Blink, and Blink, but not WebKit? That's a symptom of a worse problem IMO.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#53

Post by jabbany »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #49
jabbany wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing wrong with the browser being the next generation cross-platform execution environment. All the older options for this (Java, Flash etc.) sucked... I would like to see a strong competitor to Chrome someday though... - Firefox still has weird issues occasionally (most recently scroll position randomly jumping sometimes). I still keep it around though because its sane when it comes to standards and will…

> Safari is out of the question as it is not even cross-platform (might as well be IE6) It's a bit funny, and a bit sad, that this wasn't always so; I rather liked the Windows version of Safari, and IE for UNIX was apparently pretty good.

Yeah.

I don't miss doing web dev in the Win XP days when one had to test everything on IE, Chrome, Safari, Opera, Firefox, etc. but at least there were options back then and things legit ran with different HTML and JS engines.

Now it's just Chrome/Chromium and Firefox representing cross-platform browsers, and most other things are platform specific WebKit mods or Chromium reskins...

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#54

Post by Turing_Machine »

jabbany wrote: post #38
syspec wrote: post #8

I encounter random CSS bugs all the time in Chrome, it's just trendy to say Safari is behind the times. Google wants everything to be done in the browser, their browser, so they can track everything without cookies to sell ads

There's nothing wrong with the browser being the next generation cross-platform execution environment. All the older options for this (Java, Flash etc.) sucked... I would like to see a strong competitor to Chrome someday though... - Firefox still has weird issues occasionally (most recently scroll position randomly jumping sometimes). I still keep it around though because its sane when it comes to standards and will…

> Safari is out of the question as it is not even cross-platform

At the moment. Apple has a fairly long history of keeping cross-platform ports alive even if they aren't publicly available (that's why the transitions from 68K->PowerPC->Intel->Apple Silicon have been relatively smooth).

I would bet that Apple could roll out a cross-platform Safari in fairly short order, should the powers that be decide that it makes business sense.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#55

Post by fouc »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #45
fouc wrote: post #21

My general recommendation is to make Safari your main browser for development work. Check your work in Firefox later. By that point it should be good. If any weirdness shows up in Chrome, you'll just end up comparing it to IE6.

A more reasonable approach is to code to standards then do these things: 1. Tell customers it will cost x more money to fix bugs on Safari (likely zero will pay this premium) 2. Put a notice or banner for Safari users that they are using a non standards compliant browser and they may see minor or major issues and maybe should use Firefox or Chrome. 3. Educate customers on standards and show them alternatives so they…

Code to webkit's standards. Also you're forgetting iOS is largely Safari (or chrome/firefox wrapped in webkit).

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#56

Post by meepmorp »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #26
cirrus3 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the Mobile Safari engine... "simply ignored Safari" = "simply ignore iPhone users".

Apple's the one ignoring them by shipping them a broken browser.

This is the kind of thing that only web devs care about. If someone can't use your web app on their phone, they're going to never try your app again, not demand changes to the browser.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#57

Post by stjohnswarts »

Benjamin_Dobell wrote: post #15
syspec wrote: post #8

I encounter random CSS bugs all the time in Chrome, it's just trendy to say Safari is behind the times. Google wants everything to be done in the browser, their browser, so they can track everything without cookies to sell ads

It's really not just "trendy". Safari is the bane of my existence. On Big Sur, our WebGL app was occassionally sporadically rendering floating objects and black primitives into infinity on our CEOs laptop. On the plus side, our competitor's product didn't work at all. So I guess it's not all bad. In this case, Catalina had worked fine, and upgrading to Monterey fixed the issue. So props to Apple for fixing the proble…

I guarantee it's not the latter given Apple's almost infinite resources.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#58

Post by stjohnswarts »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #12
blondin wrote: post #11

i sympathize with the author. safari and browsers aside, there is something bigger going on. there is a massive disconnect between applications users and makers nowadays. i have started to think that they a) don't care b) have misaligned priorities c) have weird notions of "acceptable" errors. i have a long list of applications that break every time there is an update. even UX updates introduce bugs nowadays. i have…

Why should any developer care about supporting Safari? Chrome and Firefox support most (all?) of the current web standards. Every site I use works on both. I don't hear any concerns about Brave, Edge or Opera either. How is it that Safari is the only broken browser these days? As for 'acceptable' errors, I find software to be pretty reliable these days. I remember way more things being messed up back in the day...

Simple: iPhones. If you aren't worried about iPhones then ignore safari all you like.

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#59

Post by stjohnswarts »

zaptrem wrote: post #13
reaperducer wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Safari, flaws and all, is pretty much the only browser that has any weight against Chrome. Tell your manager that you want the web site to support Firefox or Brave or something else, and they'll tell you it's a waste of time. Tell them that the web site won't work on their MacBook, and it's a four-alarm fire. In a lot of ways, I wish Safari would deviate even more from Google's "standards" just so that maybe…

Isn't Brave essentially a Chromium skin?

No. They provide a lot of extras and privacy protections. It's actually a pretty good browser, although I prefer Firefox with my favorite 3 or 4 plugins. I use Brave sometimes just to see where it's at and the occasional site that can't be used with Firefox (even with user agent swapping).

Re: Safari Ruined My Tuesday

#60

Post by innocenat »

fouc wrote: post #55
RobertRoberts wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more reasonable approach is to code to standards then do these things: 1. Tell customers it will cost x more money to fix bugs on Safari (likely zero will pay this premium) 2. Put a notice or banner for Safari users that they are using a non standards compliant browser and they may see minor or major issues and maybe should use Firefox or Chrome. 3. Educate customers on standards and show them alternatives so they…

Code to webkit's standards. Also you're forgetting iOS is largely Safari (or chrome/firefox wrapped in webkit).

Tbh, personally, I only care about Safari because iOS. If iOS user are able to use other browsers, I wouldn't really hesitate to not support Safari.
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