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Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

wired.co.uk

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Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#51
post #38
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, who publishes this information, and why? Address/phone is somewhat standard phonebook stuff (or at least, used to be; less so now I guess) but job and salary?!

In the US, in almost every publicly funded position, your job, salary and benefits are available for everyone to see. I am employed by a publicly funded institution now, and everything I earn is available for consumption, along with extra-duty pay, benefits, and historical data. Why would it be crazy for that to be available for everyone? I genuinely don't get what the big idea is.

The logic with the public sector is that "the people" are paying for it so it's their business where the money is going.

I'm not personally much of a fan of private sector salaries, income tax paid, etc. being a matter of public record but it's also not obviously "crazy" either. There are reasonable debates about transparency at the margins and this is a margin.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#52
post #12

Funny that they were so concerned about GDPR violations given that in Sweden everyone's address/job/phone/salary is public and easily accessible. I like it that every time a foreigner joins my company (I live in Sweden) it's a matter of time before they post a message in our Stockholm channel saying "guys... what the hell is this website and why am I in it?". Then the swedes mention that they see nothing wrong with i…

Wait, who publishes this information, and why? Address/phone is somewhat standard phonebook stuff (or at least, used to be; less so now I guess) but job and salary?!

https://www.regeringen.se/4a76f3/contentassets/2c767a1ae4e84...

This principle is why most of the information that our government has is public, but not everything is in a database accessible by anyone on the Internet, but some information is. If I want to know what a private person makes I can call Skatteverket and ask, but this info is not available on the Internet, though some companies provide services for this.

If you have a registration number for a car you can get information about it using the link below, but owner info requires me to login with my bankid (online identity service that most government and banks, etc, use). I just did this and got an email with the owner and owner history within a few minutes. I did it for a Tesla that has BITCOIN as reg number that I've seen before, you can also try it.

https://fu-regnr.transportstyrelsen.se/extweb/UppgifterAnnat...

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#53
post #49
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, in almost every publicly funded position, your job, salary and benefits are available for everyone to see. I am employed by a publicly funded institution now, and everything I earn is available for consumption, along with extra-duty pay, benefits, and historical data. Why would it be crazy for that to be available for everyone? I genuinely don't get what the big idea is.

For publicly funded positions salary is just a matter of transparent government. Address and phone? Probably not so much. However, the previous post talked about "everyone" and "company", not publicly funded positions.

If you own a home in the US, your address is public record at least unless you take steps through shell companies etc. to hide it. And while it's less relevant with the decline of land lines, so was your phone number unless you paid to make it unlisted.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#54
post #36

"We don't have an open API" Sure you do. You just don't know it yet.

This could be a variant of http://hyrumslaw.com JackFr's law: With sufficiently angered users of a private API, they will build an better, open API around it.

Plaid

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#55

> In some cases, people’s personal information could be accessed from Google searches. SEO providers should take a note here. > It warned parents to stop using the app and alleged that it might be illegally accessing people’s personal information If your API allows data extraction, it probably isn't a fault of any client. Perhaps they meant that creators could steal credentials. A problem with any software. I think t…

It appears to manage attendance and grades among other things. I'm not sure what this has to do with Chromebooks.

There are different schools of thought, some people would rather have the kids home-schooled or completely different like Montessori, Steiner... so maybe the critique comes from that direction.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#56

> The platform is a complex system that’s made up of three different parts, containing 18 individual modules that are maintained by five external companies. The sprawling system is used by 600 preschools and 177 schools, with separate logins for every teacher, student, and parent. The only problem? It doesn’t work. > The Skolplattform, which has cost more than 1 billion Swedish Krona, SEK, ($117 million), has failed…

Its difficult to evaluate the value of the info, if no one can find it because its buried in menus then yes it is useless but that doesn't mean it cant be useful, in general if its worth printing its worth putting on your website.

I don't get the point of non web apps because usually they are just a subset of the website.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#57
> To do so, the city struck a deal with an external provider that will be able to set up licenses between Öppna Skolplattformen and the city. “With this solution, the City of Stockholm can guarantee that personal data is handled in a correct and secure way, while parents can take part in the market’s digital tools in their everyday lives”

Licensing does nothing to guarantee that your systems are secure, and the overall law is what enforces the correct handling of personal data by outside parties. But in this paper pusher's head, anything she cannot control through a contract must be a threat. And so she will spend public money wielding the police department against individuals actually building stuff, to force them into signing her safety blanket of a contract.

In 2021, it behooves us to remember that this type of gatekeeper used to be in control of nearly every technology organization - empty suits who knew nothing technical, thinking security is about checking off certifications and qualifications. It was a rare gem to find someone with a clue who held enough organizational pull to set policy.

I remember having a meeting with the head of the campus network at my university, who was concerned about me running Linux on my own machine. He just couldn't understand the point of Linux - he could never trust it because "there is no one to sue". As if suing Microsoft would have ever been a sensible path. But that was his worldview - how do you think he responded to security reports?

But the thing that we need to realize in 2021 is that it's not like these people just left and found honest jobs - their existence was eclipsed by the much larger technical-first community. They're still out there, controlling their little fiefdoms, reacting in the same destructive ways to stop themselves from looking "bad". And with the calcification of technology, they might even be poised for a comeback.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#58
post #51
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, in almost every publicly funded position, your job, salary and benefits are available for everyone to see. I am employed by a publicly funded institution now, and everything I earn is available for consumption, along with extra-duty pay, benefits, and historical data. Why would it be crazy for that to be available for everyone? I genuinely don't get what the big idea is.

The logic with the public sector is that "the people" are paying for it so it's their business where the money is going. I'm not personally much of a fan of private sector salaries, income tax paid, etc. being a matter of public record but it's also not obviously "crazy" either. There are reasonable debates about transparency at the margins and this is a margin.

I genuinely do not see a downside of publicly available salary information. What am I missing and/or not thinking about?

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#59

Funny that they were so concerned about GDPR violations given that in Sweden everyone's address/job/phone/salary is public and easily accessible. I like it that every time a foreigner joins my company (I live in Sweden) it's a matter of time before they post a message in our Stockholm channel saying "guys... what the hell is this website and why am I in it?". Then the swedes mention that they see nothing wrong with i…

Places like Sweden, Japan, Taiwan are often touted as examples of why XYZ works. However people often fail to mention that these places are, relative to many countries like the US, extremely homogenous in culture and ethnicity. Certain things that work in those countries will fall apart when attempted in a more diverse country.

Sweden is something like 20% foreign immigrants and another 5% who are children of 2 immigrant parents. For the past half century Sweden has taken in a lot of refugees and other immigrants, and has more foreign residents per capita than the USA. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Sweden

Taiwan is 3% foreign immigrants, Japan is 2%.

Re: Stockholm parents built their own school app, then the city called the cops

#60
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salary? How could that being public serve the public's interest? As a privacy advocate that does pique my curiosity.

I would ask the opposite question -- why is that an important number to conceal? (Please no "it's none of your business" replies, that doesn't really answer the question and it's not an interesting direction to go.)

There is an "ignorance is bliss" argument and a "if you don't know what is on offer, you can't ask for it" argument.

The whole privacy system is geared towards supporting employers and people in the upper echelons of salary.

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