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The Amish have negotiated a pact with modernity (2018)

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Re: The Amish have negotiated a pact with modernity (2018)

#51

Post by UncleOxidant »

burnafter184 wrote: post #9

I feel like I have to drop "Technopoly" here, because that's promoting similar concepts. Postman calls out our bias towards adopting new technologies without any reluctance, and without consideration of the hazards of deploying it. He also espouses the view that once a technology is adopted it will self-proliferate up to the point where it becomes wholly outmoded, which at least as far as I can tell appears to be tru…

Technopoly was published in 1992 but still holds up quite well. Postman was something of a prophet.

Re: The Amish have negotiated a pact with modernity (2018)

#52

Post by guenthert »

leephillips wrote: post #15
h2odragon wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Committed pacifists may not feel as much need for the military.

“[Pacifism] is only possible to people who have money and guns between themselves and reality.” -- George Orwell In other words, you can be as “committed” to pacifism as you want, but your life and freedom, and your indulgence in your pacifist philosophy, is made possible by other people’s commitment to the defense against violence with violence, and, often, to their sacrifice.

That's a very pessimistic (and I'm afraid self-fulfilling) position. Costa Rica abolished their army in 1949 and hasn't been invaded since. Why shouldn't an Amish Nation fare as well?

Re: The Amish have negotiated a pact with modernity (2018)

#55

Post by dang »

zepto wrote: post #6

Good article in general, except for the title. I know many people and see many people online who understand these truths. The hard part is creating a viable alternative culture that can make collective choices about technology use. It’s also worth noting that the Amish rely on the ‘English’ I.e. American legal system and military for their defense. Their way of life doesn’t stand alone outside of American society.

Ok, we've replaced the baity title with the opening sentence. Thanks!

Re: The Amish have negotiated a pact with modernity (2018)

#56

Post by spaetzleesser »

sleepysysadmin wrote: post #4

It's not just the Amish. Many communities have decided they wish to live at ~1850. It has always made me curious why, what do they know? If you look deeply in many religions they are the same. Buddhist monks aren't excluded from tech but they certainly dont own any themselves. Why? Because it's something to consider and create desires. Just as they shave their head not because of aesthetics but because now you never…

A lot of the Tibetan monks I have seen in the US seem to be really excited about their cell phones and are on them all the time.

Re: The Amish have negotiated a pact with modernity (2018)

#57

Post by khazhoux »

Highly recommend this and other videos by Peter Santenello. He goes into Amish communities and just talks with people. Fascinating insight into the same topics of this article.

https://youtu.be/EgY1SVXiBrU

His journey into orthodox jewish neighborhood in NY is great too.

Re: The Amish have negotiated a pact with modernity (2018)

#58

Post by leephillips »

ARandomerDude wrote: post #39
leephillips wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“[Pacifism] is only possible to people who have money and guns between themselves and reality.” -- George Orwell In other words, you can be as “committed” to pacifism as you want, but your life and freedom, and your indulgence in your pacifist philosophy, is made possible by other people’s commitment to the defense against violence with violence, and, often, to their sacrifice.

I'm not a pacifist (combat veteran, actually) but I'll point out that you may be missing something on their side of the argument. There are some things worth dying for (for example, freedom as you point out). A pacifist has a similar mentality, but believes not taking a life is worth dying for. Both the pacifist and the non-pacifist want freedom, but the pacifist would rather surrender liberty than kill if that's wha…

Of course people with a variety of stances on the issue all call themselves “pacifists”, just as there are “vegetarians” who eat fish. I respect the choices that you describe, because they’re your choices, and don’t endanger other people. The pacifists I consider morally obtuse are those who refuse to see that they enjoy their freedom under the umbrella of institutions that are decidedly not pacifist. It’s a kind of philosophical parasitism. And the pacifists that I have real contempt for are those who would refuse to defend other people against violence.

“I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy.” -- John Adams

Re: The Amish have negotiated a pact with modernity (2018)

#59

Post by guenthert »

post_break wrote: post #14
h2odragon wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Committed pacifists may not feel as much need for the military.

Amish are strapped. They have lots of guns. They also have a lot of abuse that they sweep under the rug.

Citation needed. Pacifism is one of their basic tenets (actually rejection of violence is).

Re: The Amish have negotiated a pact with modernity (2018)

#60

Post by Diederich »

moedersmooiste wrote: post #40
throwawayboise wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are places where owning a car is a burden. I have lived in such a place and I didn't like it. There are pther places where owning a car is pretty much essential. I'd give up computers and the internet entirely before I gave up my car.

Really curious what those places are. Because for me it's the other way around. I live in a Dutch city where you can get around easily by walking, biking or public transport. And for those rare occasions I need a car, I use a car sharing service. Don't know if you live in car-dependent suburbia(most people do), but that doesn't sound appealing at all.

> Really curious what those places are.

We live in a rural area about 10 minutes drive from Olympia, the capitol city of Washington state.

There's a fair amount of public transit in and around Olympia, but none of it comes close to where we live. Uber doesn't serve this area, and taxis are rare and expensive.

My wife and I work from home, and drive our largely hydro-powered Tesla in to town a few times a week.

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