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Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

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Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#51

Post by arsome »

dougmwne wrote: post #17
rhacker wrote: post #15

Facebook keeps asking Congress to make laws. How about this one: Peripherals, including mice, monitors, keyboards, VR headsets or any other device used to process input or output from a computer, may NOT be connected to any cloud service with an account. Any such cloud connections MUST be for software updates only and software updates MUST be capable of permanent opt-out without any loss of usage. I mean I grew up wi…

Great way to make Facebook drop PCVR support and allow standalone apps only. At this point, I think things are going in that direction rapidly anyway. Oculus has already shifted most of it's game development resources away from PCVR.

I'm not so sure, Facebook did just invest a bunch of effort in getting AirLink working to allow wireless PC VR support and they seem to keep improving it.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#52

Post by opan »

ekianjo wrote: post #33
revolvingocelot wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...which is doomed to death whenever Google stops with the security updates for the very specific hardware it runs on. In fairness, IIRC, this is actually the fault of Qualcomm providing, and eventually ceasing to provide, Google with hardware security updates of some sort. The point is that these fun projects to circumvent baked-in awfulness are practically destined to stop working properly due to the nature of the…

So on phone the only real alternative is SailFishOS ?

Check out postmarketOS, Mobian, and NixOS Mobile. They support some OnePlus phones and a few others in addition to the PinePhone and Librem 5. pmOS has the most devices supported (although amount of stuff working varies per device).

Sailfish uses a proprietary UI, so I hesitate to recommend it. There's an alternative that replaces their UI, can't recall the name right now.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#53

Post by paranoidrobot »

akerl_ wrote: post #36
rhacker wrote: post #15

Facebook keeps asking Congress to make laws. How about this one: Peripherals, including mice, monitors, keyboards, VR headsets or any other device used to process input or output from a computer, may NOT be connected to any cloud service with an account. Any such cloud connections MUST be for software updates only and software updates MUST be capable of permanent opt-out without any loss of usage. I mean I grew up wi…

Why is it desirable for Congress to make laws limiting how electronics manufacturers can design their electronics? If Facebook wants to make a VR headset that requires that you upload a monthly video of you doing the chicken dance, just don’t buy their product. Attempting to use government to make private entities build the kinds of technology you like is a pretty heavy hammer to drop on individual freedoms.

> just don’t buy their product.

That works in theory, but in practice when all the products from all the vendors work that way, you no longer have a choice.

Plenty of examples like that - Try buying a TV that's not a "smart" TV nowdays, you basically can't. If you want a good quality picture, then it's also coming with telemetry and in many cases advertisements, too.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#54

Post by akerl_ »

paranoidrobot wrote: post #53
akerl_ wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it desirable for Congress to make laws limiting how electronics manufacturers can design their electronics? If Facebook wants to make a VR headset that requires that you upload a monthly video of you doing the chicken dance, just don’t buy their product. Attempting to use government to make private entities build the kinds of technology you like is a pretty heavy hammer to drop on individual freedoms.

> just don’t buy their product. That works in theory, but in practice when all the products from all the vendors work that way, you no longer have a choice. Plenty of examples like that - Try buying a TV that's not a "smart" TV nowdays, you basically can't. If you want a good quality picture, then it's also coming with telemetry and in many cases advertisements, too.

This is a VR headset. It’s hardly a basic necessity

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#55

Post by loktarogar »

akerl_ wrote: post #36
rhacker wrote: post #15

Facebook keeps asking Congress to make laws. How about this one: Peripherals, including mice, monitors, keyboards, VR headsets or any other device used to process input or output from a computer, may NOT be connected to any cloud service with an account. Any such cloud connections MUST be for software updates only and software updates MUST be capable of permanent opt-out without any loss of usage. I mean I grew up wi…

Why is it desirable for Congress to make laws limiting how electronics manufacturers can design their electronics? If Facebook wants to make a VR headset that requires that you upload a monthly video of you doing the chicken dance, just don’t buy their product. Attempting to use government to make private entities build the kinds of technology you like is a pretty heavy hammer to drop on individual freedoms.

If I spend $50,000 on a tractor that also has a cloud component that drives the tractor around for me, is it also not fair to expect that I can use that tractor just as a tractor if I don't have internet access at my farm?

It's a different story if it's eg. an Alexa device thats primary purpose is to be connected to the internet.

If a device is in a class of product that doesn't necessarily need a cloud connection/account/whatever, it shouldn't require it.

Often it's not practical to switch to a competing product. Sometimes it's not possible at all. Consumers should have rights here, and it's legislation's job to provide them, in a just society.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#56

Post by rhacker »

ksdale wrote: post #49
Kaze404 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies are not individuals.

I'm no corporate shill, but corporations are groups of people, so anything you think it's ok to take away from them because they're a group and not a person, you could logically take away from, say, a union or a farmer's market. If it was wise to make that law regarding facebook, would it be wise to make it regarding an individual as well, or should individuals be allowed to do it because they're not groups? And if i…

So backing up out of that for a second. Are you saying there are individuals (not part of a group, or a corporation) that are dead set on making computer peripherals that require an account?

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#57

Post by thebigman433 »

dougmwne wrote: post #17
rhacker wrote: post #15

Facebook keeps asking Congress to make laws. How about this one: Peripherals, including mice, monitors, keyboards, VR headsets or any other device used to process input or output from a computer, may NOT be connected to any cloud service with an account. Any such cloud connections MUST be for software updates only and software updates MUST be capable of permanent opt-out without any loss of usage. I mean I grew up wi…

Great way to make Facebook drop PCVR support and allow standalone apps only. At this point, I think things are going in that direction rapidly anyway. Oculus has already shifted most of it's game development resources away from PCVR.

What makes you think theyre dropping PCVR support? They just spent 3 years getting wired and wireless Link working. They clearly want to unify their products into a single hybrid standalone/pcvr lineup.

PCVR software sales are just absolutely abysmal, there is no way to make a profit on a large scale app, so theyre only going to invest in AAA content for standalone now.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#58

Post by akerl_ »

rhacker wrote: post #45
akerl_ wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it desirable for Congress to make laws limiting how electronics manufacturers can design their electronics? If Facebook wants to make a VR headset that requires that you upload a monthly video of you doing the chicken dance, just don’t buy their product. Attempting to use government to make private entities build the kinds of technology you like is a pretty heavy hammer to drop on individual freedoms.

> Why is it desirable for Congress Humans are dumb and they buy it, and it sets the precedent. We have to make laws sometimes. You can barely even buy a TV without smart features now and yet everyone that knows about such features that don't want them still HAVE to buy them if they want a gd tv. Should we just make it legal for oil companies to have no consequences for oil spills because it doesn't really affect much…

Maybe they’re not dumb and they’re making their own choices differently than you make yours.

Oil spills harm the environment. We regulate them because the ocean can’t just choose to not receive the oil, not out of a desire to make sure we can keep eating fish.

EDIT: To say the thing out loud: I buy smart TVs on purpose, and I’d like to think I’m a smart person who understands the technology involved. Is the case you’re making that I am in fact dumb?

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#59

Post by a-dub »

rhacker wrote: post #15

Facebook keeps asking Congress to make laws. How about this one: Peripherals, including mice, monitors, keyboards, VR headsets or any other device used to process input or output from a computer, may NOT be connected to any cloud service with an account. Any such cloud connections MUST be for software updates only and software updates MUST be capable of permanent opt-out without any loss of usage. I mean I grew up wi…

hmm. it doesn't seem all that different from sony or microsoft subsizing the cost of gaming consoles and then locking down what can run on them so they can recoup those costs by getting a slice of the game sales.

nor is it all that different from apple or google dumping millions and millions into ios and android os/base level platform development, software update/delivery infrastructure and proactive platform security and then recouping those costs on sales and in-app purchases through the app stores.

it's been going on since the original nintendo entertainment system with its approval process. prior to that was the atari 2600 debacle, where the platform languished and the ecosystem of software was such crap that people just sort of gave up on it.

that said, are they a form of monopoly? it certainly amortizes the costs of developing hardware and os platforms to the point that consumers are willing to buy in, but it also results in undue control over the resulting platforms. hard to say... i think it all comes down to how that control is wielded... (and without it, it's the atari 2600 all over again)

only alternatives i can think of are to regulate the platforms for fairness or force platform vendors to offer full price/off contract versions of their hardware.

Re: Oculess – Removes account requirements and telemetry from Oculus Quest devices

#60

Post by voltaireodactyl »

camkego wrote: post #47
rhacker wrote: post #15

Facebook keeps asking Congress to make laws. How about this one: Peripherals, including mice, monitors, keyboards, VR headsets or any other device used to process input or output from a computer, may NOT be connected to any cloud service with an account. Any such cloud connections MUST be for software updates only and software updates MUST be capable of permanent opt-out without any loss of usage. I mean I grew up wi…

Has anyone else noticed what a large add campaign Facebook has launched featuring Millennials asking for new and re-vamped Internet regulation? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kur94OyXf3U What is this all about?

My strong suspicion is that the general plan is essentially:

- let a whistleblower (who seems intent on describing Facebook employees as smart and humanistic folks, despite those employees designing and maintaining FBs content delivery systems) make a case that Facebook needs government regulation.

- agree that such a regulatory agency should be created, and offer FBs assistance in outlining the parameters involved — because who better than the problem to design the solution?

- agency is created. Perhaps the whistleblower can even be a high level figure within it, as the face of the issue.

- Suddenly FB is no longer liable for anything because they are “adhering to government regulation”.

- Regulatory capture ensues as expected.

FOR FB this is preferable to thr other options:

1. Calls for FB to be broken up

2. Regulation that FB doesn’t have a primary role in designing.

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