SUVs are offsetting EV car gains • Hacker News Board

Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#51

Post by lmm » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:17 AM UTC

coolgoose wrote: post #40

tdrdt wrote: post #11

Meanwhile the German city Tübingen is raising the parking fee for SUVs by 6 times and other cities are thinking about this as well. They are too big for those cities. https://www.rtl.de/cms/tuebingen-parkgebuehren-fuer-suv-fahr...

I am confused on why some people don't get that SUV's are a preference because they do bring some benefits (namely more space, a bit higher guard (especially useful on shitty roads), and that the alternative aka MCV's / monovolume are just dead and were never a lot more drag efficient. Does it suck to drive a SUV in a city ? Mostly yes, but is it better to tax people based on the car size ? Won't this just make some…

> I am confused on why some people don't get that SUV's are a preference because they do bring some benefits (namely more space, a bit higher guard (especially useful on shitty roads)

That's the reason why it's a tax or fee rather than a ban. If the benefits are worth it to you, fine, but you should pay for the social costs of your choices (which are not just high pollution but also taking up more road space and endangering other road users, especially cyclists and pedestrians).

> is it better to tax people based on the car size ? Won't this just make some people have 2 cars now instead of 1 ?

Seems pretty implausible. What would be the mechanism for that?

Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#52

Post by sfe22 » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:17 AM UTC

pjmlp wrote: post #47

coolgoose wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am confused on why some people don't get that SUV's are a preference because they do bring some benefits (namely more space, a bit higher guard (especially useful on shitty roads), and that the alternative aka MCV's / monovolume are just dead and were never a lot more drag efficient. Does it suck to drive a SUV in a city ? Mostly yes, but is it better to tax people based on the car size ? Won't this just make some…

I guess if they can afford an SUV, they can afford two cars.

But that is the point, two cars is much worse than one suv

Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#53

Post by websap » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:18 AM UTC

k8sToGo wrote: post #18

tdrdt wrote: post #11

Meanwhile the German city Tübingen is raising the parking fee for SUVs by 6 times and other cities are thinking about this as well. They are too big for those cities. https://www.rtl.de/cms/tuebingen-parkgebuehren-fuer-suv-fahr...

Great. The rich can park while the poor cannot afford.

Unfortunate you are getting down voted. I've noticed HN is overrun by people with extreme left leaning views while they rake in tech salaries. SF is now literally a science experiment in petri dish - What happens when rich people, who pretend to care throw money at problems instead of actually getting involved?

Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#54

Post by leoedin » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:18 AM UTC

trhway wrote: post #5

morsch wrote: post #2

Alternatively, the 536 hp, 5018 lbs (2276 kg) BMW i4 ("1,000 lbs (454 kg) more than most other 3 and 4 Series BMWs", not known as lightweight cars in the first place) apparently "is the electric BMW sedan you’ve been waiting for". New ways of wasting energy in maximum comfort, all around. https://arstechnica.com/cars/2021/10/the-2023-bmw-i4-is-the-...

>New ways of wasting energy in maximum comfort, all around. "Over the course of 267 miles (430 km) and 8 hours, the car used 2.6 miles/kWh (23.7 kWh/100 km), bearing in mind that those miles were all driven in Germany and include running at the car's top speed of 140 mph (225 km) on derestricted autobahns." ie. around 100 mpg. It is not even close to "waste", it is saving the planet in maximum comfort.

Electricity made from fossil fuels is about 40% efficient (depending on method) - so that 100mpg in the car turns into 40mpg overall.

The big benefit electric cars have is obviously that they can use renewable energy to charge, which reduces the carbon intensity of their electricity. But that's not a given - it depends hugely on location.

Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#55

Post by robocat » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:18 AM UTC

tdrdt wrote: post #11

Meanwhile the German city Tübingen is raising the parking fee for SUVs by 6 times and other cities are thinking about this as well. They are too big for those cities. https://www.rtl.de/cms/tuebingen-parkgebuehren-fuer-suv-fahr...

Which makes SUVs even more of a status signalling Veblen good - cost is correlated with status so cost increases can have perverse effects.

Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#56

Post by californical » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:19 AM UTC

roflchoppa wrote: post #36

californical wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve noticed this recently in my driving. As an experiment, I lowered my highway speed from 75mph to 65mph for a couple weeks, and my gas mileage went from about 26mpg to 34mpg. Car is epa rated for 33. An enormous improvement in efficiency - that experiment has totally changed my driving habits. Knowing that, I can’t believe that I’m basically the slowest car on the road now (going 65, which is the speed limit!). Cr…

Make sure to not hog the fast lane :)

Haha of course I stay out of the way! :)

Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#57

Post by TacticalCoder » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:19 AM UTC

californical wrote: post #20

jnsaff2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, people in the EV conversion world tended to think that weight was the killer of efficiency. They later found out by experience that weight was much less important than wind resistance with the conclusion that speed is mostly killing your efficiency (along with shape of the car).

I’ve noticed this recently in my driving. As an experiment, I lowered my highway speed from 75mph to 65mph for a couple weeks, and my gas mileage went from about 26mpg to 34mpg. Car is epa rated for 33. An enormous improvement in efficiency - that experiment has totally changed my driving habits. Knowing that, I can’t believe that I’m basically the slowest car on the road now (going 65, which is the speed limit!). Cr…

My driving habits are changing when I drive my wife's hybrid. There's a gauge indicating the efficiency and I always try to "beat" my best: I can do as low as 2.5 l / 100 (about 94 mpg).

My gazzguzzler OTOH is not planet-friendly: about 20mpg cruising on the autobahn at 105mph / 170km/h. I plan to dump it one of these days for a (luxury) BEV.

> Crazy to think about how much fuel we’re wasting by driving fast

I agree. I can't help it yet but I'm working on it.

Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#58

Post by forty » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:19 AM UTC

k8sToGo wrote: post #31

renewiltord wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the point. It’s the point of so many things. If you can’t pay to offset the problem you impose on someone, you sometimes can’t impose on them. That’s the idea.

What I meant is, do you really think the rich people will care? Will those people really not drive their SUV to the city?

Maybe they will. If not you can increase the tax even more and, worse case scenario they still don't care and you still get the money to invest in public transportation :)

Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#59

Post by pjmlp » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:19 AM UTC

sfe22 wrote: post #52

pjmlp wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess if they can afford an SUV, they can afford two cars.

But that is the point, two cars is much worse than one suv

Most SUV owning couples already have two cars.

Going into sterotypes mode now, guy drives regular car, wife drives SUV to take kids into school.

Re: SUVs are offsetting EV car gains

#60

Post by lmm » Wed, Oct 13, 2021, 7:19 AM UTC

Seanambers wrote: post #41

rexpress wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worse than that, poor people's bus or bike journeys end up being impeded by road hogging SUV's and other single occupancy vehicles.

Isn't it a illusion that poor people bike so much? I mean one of the most efficient indicators of real estate price is travel time to and from a city center.

Poor people can't afford cars. Cramming whole families into cheap apartments of questionable legality is not a great way to live, but you do what you have to.