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iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

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Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#51

Post by sudosysgen »

defaultname wrote: post #34
sudosysgen wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a macro lens in my hands and a stabilized sensor camera. I can take a picture of the crown of my watch with a fair amount of detail. You have a 4mm lens at f/2. To get the same depth of field you'd need a 50mm lens at f/25, not f/512. You don't need to use a 50mm lens though. Macro lenses are typically 24mm or so. So you need to shoot at F12 to have the same depth of field in reality, certainly not f/512... An…

"You have a 4mm lens at f/2. To get the same depth of field you'd need a 50mm lens at f/25, not f/512." Humorously years back I had authored a giant depth of field essay with online calculators specifically because so many people just couldn't understand why their iPhone couldn't get bokeh. Yes, f/512 would be the impossible equivalent. This is easily calculated. Regardless, the lens Apple uses for macro mode has a 1…

That's just not how lenses work, fundamentally. Bokeh is determined by two things, and two things only - the diameter of the aperture and the distance to the object. That's it.

Also yes, the wide angle of the iPhone 13 is much smaller. Just stop down even further then.

Cheap macro lenses in 2021 are typically around 24mm. I'm talking about the Mitakons and the Laowas of the world.

Focus stacking is needed when you're trying to take very high detail pictures with 60, 70, 90mm lenses on high resolution sensors. You don't need anywhere near as much to take an image with the same magnification as a 13mm equiv. 2cm away.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#53

Post by defaultname »

sudosysgen wrote: post #51
defaultname wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You have a 4mm lens at f/2. To get the same depth of field you'd need a 50mm lens at f/25, not f/512." Humorously years back I had authored a giant depth of field essay with online calculators specifically because so many people just couldn't understand why their iPhone couldn't get bokeh. Yes, f/512 would be the impossible equivalent. This is easily calculated. Regardless, the lens Apple uses for macro mode has a 1…

That's just not how lenses work, fundamentally. Bokeh is determined by two things, and two things only - the diameter of the aperture and the distance to the object. That's it. Also yes, the wide angle of the iPhone 13 is much smaller. Just stop down even further then. Cheap macro lenses in 2021 are typically around 24mm. I'm talking about the Mitakons and the Laowas of the world. Focus stacking is needed when you're…

"That's just not how lenses work, fundamentally."

Go to the wikipedia page on depth of field and see how it is calculated.

"Cheap macro lenses in 2021 are typically around 24mm"

You claimed they were the norm. Now it's that they simply exist.

"Focus stacking is needed"

Focus stacking is needed when the depth of field is so small that the resulting photo would be unpleasant. This is the case for almost all macro photographs shot on SLRs. It's interesting that someone else claimed this is a fixed issue and posted a photo that looks like it was taken with one of those terrible lens adapter kits. If that is one's standard for "fixed", then sure, but most of us have higher standards.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#54

Post by defaultname »

throwanem wrote: post #48
defaultname wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Few who have ever taken macro photographs would claim this is a "fixed issue". Macro photography is a giant pain. Further the difference between a 4mm focal length and a 50mm focal length, as a function of DoF, is massively larger than that 50mm going between f2.8 to f16. You'd have to go to a hypothetical F/512 to get the same advantage in that particular realm (though in reality small apertures suffer from their ow…

I usually work around f/22, at 1/250 and of course with flash. I shot this handheld, about a year ago: https://aaron-m.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/DSC1250-1.jpg It's a fixed issue.

Do you think that photo demonstrates that it's a fixed issue? You seem to have around 3mm of depth actually in focus, and even with a very, very shallow subject, parts are unpleasantly out of focus.

I don't think that is the demonstration you think it is. Most macro photographers would not rack that up as a successful photo.

And again, focus stacking is what everyone does to compensate for the DoF weakness.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#55

Post by sandofsky »

wyldfire wrote: post #38

This company makes a software product called "Halide" for your mobile camera, AFAICT it is an iOS app [1]. But interestingly enough there's an image processing programming language called halide, too [2]. [1] https://halide.cam/ [2] https://halide-lang.org/

This comes up every time a post makes it to Hacker News. I can only speak for the camera app, but I assume the language also refers to silver halide, a chemical used in film photography.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_halide

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#56

Post by bosie »

sudosysgen wrote: post #27
defaultname wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having that functionality in your pocket, instantly usable, beats having an SLR in the closet at home with a macro lens that you can switch to for a passing need. And FWIW, the curse of SLR macro lenses is minuscule depth of field, so much so that many take many photos (presuming a perfectly stationary subject), bracket the focus, and stack by sharpness. It's a hugely involved process. A macro lens with a tiny focal…

This is a fixed issue in cameras. Stop down to F16, and use a ring flash, there you go, fixed.

i assume fixed at 24mm because at 90mm, stopping it down to f16 won't do you much good?

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#57

Post by jagger27 »

fudged71 wrote: post #52

Surprised to see zero mention of ring lights. A small ring light would be perfect for iPhone macros.

That’s a neat idea for an accessory. I bet you could make a little stick-on or clip-on light pipe that redirects the built-in flash to a tiny ring diffuser around the macro lens.

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#58

Post by arrrg »

marban wrote: post #6

While the 13 Pro's lens is undoubtedly a marvel of engineering, I feel like all those 'mind.blown' reviews must have been written by youngsters who never used a dedicated macro lens on a (D)SLR.

It’s different and each has its own qualities.

I noticed it during my vacation in Italy. Yeah, I still run around with a big mirrorless camera with a huge zoom lens (Fujifilm’s weird X-H1 absolutely no one bought but I still love very much with the very large and heavy 16-55 mm F2.8 lens) and I’m sure I will only use its photos for my 2022 week calendar or whatever else photo projects I will do – but the photos from my iPhone still provided an instant satisfying value in the way in which they are instantly and easily shareable and just immediately can populate my digital live (even if I have the huge camera with me – which I don’t always have!).

These are two different ways of using photography and both are valid. More importantly, both benefit from any new capabilities you gain.

I guess what I want from my Fuji is to integrate itself more tightly and easily with my smartphone, something they really suck at. And I want my smartphone to be good enough in more situations. Like macro photography.

And the weird thing about macro is that even if you do have a big camera and great lenses (I have the 35mm F1.4, 23mm F1.4, 16-55mm F2.8 and I sometimes rent the 90mm F2.0) you might not prioritize macro photography, so if you just get a new thing that’s pretty good at it that just very cool to play around with. And I don’t think your sneering attitude is justified …

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#59

Post by [deleted] »

sudosysgen wrote: post #51
defaultname wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You have a 4mm lens at f/2. To get the same depth of field you'd need a 50mm lens at f/25, not f/512." Humorously years back I had authored a giant depth of field essay with online calculators specifically because so many people just couldn't understand why their iPhone couldn't get bokeh. Yes, f/512 would be the impossible equivalent. This is easily calculated. Regardless, the lens Apple uses for macro mode has a 1…

That's just not how lenses work, fundamentally. Bokeh is determined by two things, and two things only - the diameter of the aperture and the distance to the object. That's it. Also yes, the wide angle of the iPhone 13 is much smaller. Just stop down even further then. Cheap macro lenses in 2021 are typically around 24mm. I'm talking about the Mitakons and the Laowas of the world. Focus stacking is needed when you're…

[deleted]

Re: iPhone Macro: A Big Day for Small Things

#60

Post by PragmaticPulp »

packetslave wrote: post #37

Here's the thing about iPhone photography (and Android too, I suppose): if you know what a DSLR is, or the difference between DSLR and mirrorless bodies, you are not the target audience . Apple isn't trying compete with a $3500 Sony A7R4 with a $1000 90mm macro lens. They're aiming for people who see the example "macro" photos and say "neat! I want to try that". Or the people who have already bought a Moment macro le…

I think the cellphone versus DSLR/mirrorless debate is largely an artificial internet debate.

Every real-world photographer I know is very happy that they can have both a cellphone and a full-size camera and choose appropriately for the situation.

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