California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers • Hacker News Board

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#51

Post by jdavis703 » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

dghughes wrote: post #21

I had an electric lawn mower it was great compared to gas mainly due to it being so quiet. Charging wasn't too bad at first one battery for the front yard and one for the back. But then one battery would not charge as much or run for as long as when new. The store had moved on to new models so I couldnt buy a battery in store. Even if I could it was expensive $100, the mower cost $250. Online even the manufacturer se…

If you’re not a professional landscaper, consider getting a plug-in lawnmower. I used them throughout the 2000s and 2010s when one of my childhood chores was lawn mowing. I never encountered any of these problems.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#52

Post by minitoar » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

verisimi wrote: post #47

echopom wrote: post #28

> New portable gas-powered generators also must be zero-emissions by 2028 Fascinated by this large scale "green washing" taking place. As of today 50% of the electricity made in california comes from natural gas... On top of that an extra 37% of california electricity is imported from others states which are running mostly of natural gas... You can also add an extra 30% of energy coming from petrol for cars , public…

Its about socialising and shifting blame onto the consumer rather than resolving the problem at source, ie with the corporations. Corporations have lobbists to ensure that they will not be out of pocket as people transition to 'green energy' - in fact they hope that this will be a new growth opportunity.

It makes it illegal for the corporations to sell those products. Not sure how that’s not “resolving the problem at source”.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#53

Post by garciasn » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

rdiddly wrote: post #48

Landscaping companies will pass their transition costs on to their (generally rich-ish and/or corporate) customers, who have been benefiting disproportionately from what is essentially a commons, for a long time. The majority of people meanwhile, mow their own lawns, and will find the typical battery-powered mower cost-effective, adequate to the task, quieter, and more convenient because there's no need to bring fuel…

I recently bought a new house where I had to care for the yard (previously owned in a HoA which handled yard care) and tried an electric leaf blower. It made it no more than 10 mins on a charge and the batteries took 8-10 hours to get back to 100%.

I didn’t find that at all adequate to the task.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#54

Post by bob1029 » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

drfxyjhdyfrhgc wrote: post #30

bob1029 wrote: post #9

I agree with all of this simply on grounds of noise pollution. My neighbor had been running a fucking 2 stroke pressure washer engine all weekend. I'm sure he thinks he's being helpful cleaning all that concrete that people drive on, but it's hell to live next to. At what point do you get to call the cops on someone for this?

>At what point do you get to call the cops on someone for this? Hopefully some time after you have a polite discussion with them about it.

> have a polite discussion

Not always feasible. Imagine this as if it were a recurring weekly thing manifesting itself in all manner of different activities as well. At this point its probably easier to just put the house up for sale and move.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#55

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

salawat wrote: post #35

TanakaTarou wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can still use a leaf blower but in the future it must be electric powered instead of gasoline.

Yes. In the State of regular rolling blackouts, and electrical grid sparked wildfires. Nothing could possibly go wrong.

[deleted]

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#56

Post by bombcar » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

atonse wrote: post #3

ddingus wrote: post #2

Perhaps there can be a different fuel? Phase these things out in a reasonable way? That's a lot of gear needing to be replaced, and in many cases, replaced with far less effective equipment.

I haven’t read the law but usually these bans are announced ahead of time and are bans on purchases of new equipment. So they do result in gradual phase outs. I read the article. The ban goes into effect in 3 years. And there is a carve out for zero emission gas ones too. Seems entirely reasonable. The state of corded and even cordless tools is pretty solid these days with lithium ion and 48V batteries etc.

What is a zero emissions gas motor anyway?

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#57

Post by lostapathy » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #39

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #16

This only applies to sales of new equipment starting in 2024. Existing equipment isn't banned. Good move, IMO. Electric yard equipment is now good enough that gas alternatives aren't necessary in most cases. Lawn care professionals will have to make a moderate investment in batteries up front, but even those are becoming more affordable and easier to charge on the go. The combination of multi-battery chargers and veh…

I'd rather not pay $500+ for a push mower with enough batteries to so my lawn. It seems like the negative impact is much higher than the marginal benefits. Why not focus on vehicles (especially planes) and the grid instead?

A non-disposable gas mower also cuts $500+ these days. Sure you can get cheaper ones, but they are junk that doesn't last.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#58

Post by Mountain_Skies » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

TanakaTarou wrote: post #20

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #14

It's funny that people who go out of their way to announce their "support" for marginalized people don't bother asking the gardeners who use them why they use them. In California those are overwhelmingly Mexican, and they're working in the hot sun to feed their families. They use a leaf blower because it lets them get done faster and make a little more money.

They can still use a leaf blower but in the future it must be electric powered instead of gasoline.

Currently they bring their own fuel to worksites. What happens when there's no outlet for them to plug into? There are large numbers of landscaping scenarios where this will be the case. Do they bring a diesel generator?

All of my yard tools, including my lawnmower, are electric. For reasons of both cost and power, I went with corded rather than battery powered. Battery tech is constantly improving and maybe at some point it will get to the point where it is viable for a yard like mine but for people who are doing a large number of properties per day, it's going to be quite a while.

Seems like the better interim solution would be making the small engines used by these tools emit less. This would of course increase the complexity and cost but seems like a better tradeoff than extension cords with large voltage drops, diesel generators, or lugging around half a dozen times more batteries than devices.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#59

Post by lostapathy » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

garciasn wrote: post #53

rdiddly wrote: post #48

Landscaping companies will pass their transition costs on to their (generally rich-ish and/or corporate) customers, who have been benefiting disproportionately from what is essentially a commons, for a long time. The majority of people meanwhile, mow their own lawns, and will find the typical battery-powered mower cost-effective, adequate to the task, quieter, and more convenient because there's no need to bring fuel…

I recently bought a new house where I had to care for the yard (previously owned in a HoA which handled yard care) and tried an electric leaf blower. It made it no more than 10 mins on a charge and the batteries took 8-10 hours to get back to 100%. I didn’t find that at all adequate to the task.

Professional lawn crews will use professional tools. I don't know what you bought, the Ego equipment is actually pretty good and has fast-ish chargers available.

Re: California moves toward ban on gas lawnmowers and leaf blowers

#60

Post by asdff » Sun, Oct 10, 2021, 5:14 PM UTC

TanakaTarou wrote: post #20

Cupertino95014 wrote: post #14

It's funny that people who go out of their way to announce their "support" for marginalized people don't bother asking the gardeners who use them why they use them. In California those are overwhelmingly Mexican, and they're working in the hot sun to feed their families. They use a leaf blower because it lets them get done faster and make a little more money.

They can still use a leaf blower but in the future it must be electric powered instead of gasoline.

Electric equipment is just not practical or realistic for these landscaping operations where you are working 50-60 hours a week. They would have to replace batteries constantly as they get worn out from being constantly depleted and charging. Not to mention you would have to run your chargers off a generator in the truck bed anyhow, negating any green benefit since these things are noisy and pollute just as much as a hand tool. If they didn't need power offered by commercial grade gas equipment, they would be using cheaper handheld blowers rather than heavier and more expensive backpack models. Plus brands like STIHL are practically bulletproof in terms of reliability.