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Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

drive.com.au

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Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#51

Post by takk309 »

WalterBright wrote: post #5

20% of Norway's GDP comes from pumping oil out of the ground and selling it for others to burn. If they were really green that would stop.

How much oil is needed to produce a single electric vehicle? What I am getting at is we will need oil extraction for a long time. While we can move away from burning it for heat, we still need it for the production of most plastics. This doesn't even begin to touch on oil's use in the extraction process of all the other metals used in car production.

We also need oil for road building. I don't see that changing anytime either. After all, asphalt production produces far fewer greenhouse gasses than cement. Concrete roads have their place but the vast majority of road miles will be made with asphalt for the near future.

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#52

Post by robotresearcher »

outside1234 wrote: post #26
tuatoru wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway is wealthy thanks to selling fossil fuels. Norwegians feel guilty about that, but not guilty enough to stop selling them. This is essentially performative environmentalism from them. Still, it will help other countries by throwing up unforeseen problems in all-electric ground transportation, and some solutions.

They also get the shit taxed out of them for buying a IC car, so electric cars are actually cheaper.

Which is a political decision made in a democracy, not a law of physics. Norwegians chose to do this. (Yes, a relatively small subset of people are actually empowered in a democracy, but it's the least-bad system known, etc etc).

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#53

Post by shkkmo »

dagw wrote: post #31
shkkmo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway isn't really that vast. It's about the size of New Mexico but has twice the population density.

It's about the size of New Mexico It is however much more spread out. Driving from the northernmost to southern most town of New Mexico is ~700 km. Driving from the southern most to northern most town of Norway is over 2300 km, or about the same has from the southernmost town of New Mexico to the Canadian border.

It's not about the max travelable distance in the country but the max distance actually traveled for most trips. The higher density (and population concentration in the south) reduces the latter and makes maintaining a charging network much more practical (their high adoption rate also help a lot with that.)

Edit: The reason why this is the important measure is because what people care about is how often their trips require N charging stops not the maximum number of charging stops they might have to make.

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#54

Post by thatwasunusual »

WalterBright wrote: post #5

20% of Norway's GDP comes from pumping oil out of the ground and selling it for others to burn. If they were really green that would stop.

> 20% of Norway's GDP comes from pumping oil out of the ground and selling it for others to burn.

To be precise, it's 14%, down from 26% in 2008.[0]

[0] https://e24.no/norsk-oekonomi/i/dOXzd1/norge-er-mindre-oljea...

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#55

Post by jonsen »

jalk wrote: post #35
thomasfl wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Norwegian I totally agree with you. It is not just unethical, but stupid to invest so much in searching for new old fields. When demand for oil drops, Norway could have a Kodak moment.

How large is the Oil Fund these days (after Corona spending) 1 trillion USD or something like that - you'll be fine

If the world remains able and willing to pay it back. It's mostly invested abroad.

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#56

Post by ajross »

andrenth wrote: post #11

Does anyone have a pointer to studies on the effects of electric vehicles in the used car market? I ask because the lifespan of current batteries seems to be around 8 years (going by manufacturers' warranties), and the battery pack amounts to approximately 30% of the price of the car. So people buying an used electric car will likely face a large maintenance cost after a while.

That's off. A typical new EV gets ~250 miles of real world range on a full charge and has a battery with very similar chemistry[1] to what you have in your phone. So over a putative 200k mile lifetime, it's going to see about 800 cycles (2e5/250) of battery usage.

800 cycles is about what a typical mobile phone sees in two years, after which most are seeing some moderate degradation (70% of new condition is fairly typical) but are still quite usable. And in fact a car spends much more of its time being recharged well before reaching full discharge (where consumer electronics runs dead a lot), so it would be expected to do somewhat better.

It's not really a problem, basically.

[1] Though we're seeing an increasing number of vehicles delivered with LiFePO4 cells. This chemistry has somewhat lower energy density and higher internal resistance, but has the advantage of an estimaged hundreds of thousands of cycles lifetime. Those will never wear out until long after the mechanical parts are dust.

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#57

Post by bellyfullofbac »

magicalhippo wrote: post #50
jalk wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How large is the Oil Fund these days (after Corona spending) 1 trillion USD or something like that - you'll be fine

> How large is the Oil Fund these days They got a "live" counter here[1], so yeah around 1.3 trillion USD give or take. Estimates for corona spending is around 80 billion USD[2]. [1]: https://www.nbim.no/en/ [2]: https://www.nettavisen.no/okonomi/regjeringen-advarer-oljefo...

Geezus, must be nice to have that kind of rainy day fund. Grossly over-simplifed: "Shut down the economy? Oh well, here's 80 billion dollars to keep everyone fed and warm."

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#59

Post by nerdawson »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #36
tannhaeuser wrote: post #2

Isn't that a strange thing, considering Norway is vast, has low population density especially in the north, and has own oil resources available?

They are also rich to the tune of $200k saved in the nations coffers for every citizen.

The UK and Norway found oil in the North Sea around the same time. Norway used that revenue to create the world’s largest sovereign wealth fund. The UK squandered it on tax cuts.

Re: Norway to hit 100% electric vehicle sales by early next year

#60

Post by tuatoru »

shkkmo wrote: post #20
tuatoru wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway is wealthy thanks to selling fossil fuels. Norwegians feel guilty about that, but not guilty enough to stop selling them. This is essentially performative environmentalism from them. Still, it will help other countries by throwing up unforeseen problems in all-electric ground transportation, and some solutions.

Norway has been doing a relatively good job of investing their oil revenue into technologies and infrastructure that will carry their economy through the end of oil and hopefully help reduce global warming. Given their relatively contribution to the total global production and OPEC's supply management to control prices, it is unclear if a halt in Norwegian oil sales would raise prices significantly enough to matter.…

s/oil/heroin/g
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