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Facebook is an addiction treadmill most may never be able to quit

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Re: Facebook is an addiction treadmill most may never be able to quit

#51

Are they taking about the same Facebook? I find it utterly boring and only use it for messenger anymore. It used to be addictive, before social media, when it was a social network. You were interacting with real people, you could meet new people, "stalk" people you know IRL, share stuff about yourself or find out stuff about others. You would try to find your crush on FB and check see if you have common acquaintances…

> I wish someone would make a site like that again!

On a technical level, it's not hard. On business level, it's doubtful if there's a compelling enough business model to prevent it from becoming another surveillance capitalism platform. And on a societal level, it seems impossible that living generations will ever trust a platform en masse again enough to achieve such ubiquity.

Re: Facebook is an addiction treadmill most may never be able to quit

#52

Are they taking about the same Facebook? I find it utterly boring and only use it for messenger anymore. It used to be addictive, before social media, when it was a social network. You were interacting with real people, you could meet new people, "stalk" people you know IRL, share stuff about yourself or find out stuff about others. You would try to find your crush on FB and check see if you have common acquaintances…

To my knowledge, it's sort of like a retirement home for old people or those with no real career, especially angry ones.

I was in an AT&T store the other day when Facebook went down, dealing with something stupid. I hadn't really touched the internet that day up to that point, blissfully unaware of the Facebook issues.

During the last five minutes I was there, in the physical AT&T store, some lady who was in her 50's, or really rough 40's, came in screaming about not being able to get into Facebook on her phone (I presume her only method of internet access) - & also about an uptick of spam calls and texts, I can only hilariously imagine why she's getting them.

Not too long after I got home I read about the Facebook outage, and it hit me that was the reason she was in there. The employees also seemed unaware as I could hear them discussing standard diagnostics on her phone.

But yeah, that person in middle America had absolutely nothing better going on in life than to drive roughly 10 minutes or more (near all residential areas are far away from this store, fairly rural) because she couldn't get on Facebook for a few hours. She was... very not nice to the employees too.

Re: Facebook is an addiction treadmill most may never be able to quit

#53
post #24
post #9

As someone who's recovered from multiple substance addictions in the past, it is so painfully obvious when I see social media addicts. It's literally the exact same behavior. The compulsion, the lack of awareness, the ignoring of friends and loved ones while mindlessly scrolling; it's all there. Social addiction is even more sinister because the feedback loop is scientifically optimized in a way no substance could ev…

If you ever heard about Maslow hierarchy, the status is way towards the top. Things like hunger, safety and not being in pain is much lower. So I highly doubt many people would forgo food and agree to be in constant excruciating pain just to be able to access facebook.

Have you ever met a nutrient deficient heroin, crack or meth addict? I'd be willing to bet those habits are closer to the top than food, but they seem to forego it and take that as far as they can without dying. We are talking about addiction here after all.

Re: Facebook is an addiction treadmill most may never be able to quit

#54

Are they taking about the same Facebook? I find it utterly boring and only use it for messenger anymore. It used to be addictive, before social media, when it was a social network. You were interacting with real people, you could meet new people, "stalk" people you know IRL, share stuff about yourself or find out stuff about others. You would try to find your crush on FB and check see if you have common acquaintances…

What hooks people like us (whatever that means) isn’t necessarily what hooks normal people (ditto).

Facebook has a massive training set at its disposal, claiming more monthly active users than humans have lifetime heartbeats. If FB isn’t chronically addictive for normal people with that sample size, then either (0) A/B testing isn’t as capable as we like to think it is, or (1) FB isn’t even trying anymore.

Re: Facebook is an addiction treadmill most may never be able to quit

#55

Imagine if nicotine had network effects (edit: I mean as strong network effects as fb). You can't quit unless all your friends do too. I hear some alcoholics have a similar challenge when their social life revolves around drinking with peer pressure not to abstain.

>Imagine if nicotine had network effects. You can't quit unless all your friends do too. As a former smoker, it took me moving from an office full of smokers to an office where I was the only smoker to finally motivate me to quit for good. I tapered down over about a year with a vape though, and I think that almost has an anti-network effect in that you kind of look like a bellend!

Nicotine patches and Wellbutrin; I can be around 100 smokers and not give a shit

Re: Facebook is an addiction treadmill most may never be able to quit

#56
What I noticed about my son’s peer group is that FB just doesn’t occupy their mind share. It’s mostly Roblox, Minecraft, Netflix, YouTube or some other game.

FB may well be an addictive space now but I suspect its growth has just about peaked. I keep hearing kids say that FB is something adults use and hence isn’t cool or trendy.

Re: Facebook is an addiction treadmill most may never be able to quit

#57
post #12
post #9

As someone who's recovered from multiple substance addictions in the past, it is so painfully obvious when I see social media addicts. It's literally the exact same behavior. The compulsion, the lack of awareness, the ignoring of friends and loved ones while mindlessly scrolling; it's all there. Social addiction is even more sinister because the feedback loop is scientifically optimized in a way no substance could ev…

No substance could ever match? More powerful than hunger? I strongly challenge that.

Having spent a fair amount of time in internet cafes in my youth I can tell you certainly I have seen my fair share of people who have neglected sleep as well as sustenance and some fairly other fundamental drives to consume digital media for at times days without pause.

Re: Facebook is an addiction treadmill most may never be able to quit

#58
I personally found Facebook hard to quit, but not entirely impossible. I would compare it to giving up cigarettes: not easy, but I got through it. I am coming to terms with the fact that I have have a very serious and damaging internet addiction, however. Like many serious addictions, there's a lot of shame attached to my real addiction, which is 4chan. 4chan is like being addicted to heroin. Every day is a battle to look away from the train wreck, and so far I haven't been able to overcome this addiction in any meaningful way. What's interesting is that the site doesn't use any of the scandalous techniques that facebook is currently getting heat for, yet it has a grip on me that's basically ruined my life as much as a crack addiction could ruin a person's life. It's so bad that I've spent many years of my life living in very close proximity to hard drug users, because of the poverty my addiction has caused me. So, I guess what I'm getting at is we might have a bigger problem than just facebook, or at least I do.

Re: Facebook is an addiction treadmill most may never be able to quit

#60
post #15

Does anyone else find it hard to personally connect with the well-researched claim that people respond with a fight-or-flight response to ideas that challenge their core beliefs? I've always found ideas to be more interesting the more they challenge my core beliefs. This is true of math and science, but especially true of things like religion. I remember how wonderful it was as a teenager to find challenges to the id…

I grew up in a very religious (technically a cult) setting. Earlier in my life, I believed some of it. I bristled at the suggestion that what I'd been taught might be wrong. I relished in the opportunity to practice "apologetics" and debate non-believers - a concept that appealed to me deeply at the time.

And then, I grew up and left the bubble. I was fortunate enough to get a job working with people who held diverse viewpoints. I still found myself resisting those viewpoints instinctively, but I learned something that surprised me at the time: the people who held those viewpoints were good people! Who'd have thought? I'd been told those people were the enemy. Unbelievers, sinners, "of this world".

As my relationships with those people grew, the cracks in my own belief systems started to grow.

I'm now in my mid 30s, and would describe my mindset as that of a scientist. I'm excited to learn when I'm wrong, because it means I learned something new about the world.

I often think about the people I left behind, many of whom are still deeply in the bubble. I wonder if I got out because I was predisposed to have an open mind, and when given the opportunity I took it, or if I was just exposed to the right combination of things to help me see the light.

All of this to follow up on this:

> Does anyone else find it hard to personally connect with the well-researched claim that people respond with a fight-or-flight response to ideas that challenge their core beliefs?

I can still feel some kind of connection to that early version of myself, or at least I know it was there and now it's not. This history has established within me some empathy for people who still do react poorly to new ideas, and I've found that it helps me better understand (not accept) the viewpoints of others around me that might otherwise seem insane.

Edit: I know it's not great to complain about downvotes, but I'm really puzzled here.

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