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Sending newsletters should cost something

rmhsilva.com

51–60 of 70 posts

Re: Sending newsletters should cost something

#51

...or you could just mark your spam as such and block the sender to reduce future junk mail without ruining a nice system of essentially free global communication for everyone who uses it as such.

The sender is different for almost every email though. Sometimes one sender will be used 3-4 times but that's about the max.

Re: Sending newsletters should cost something

#52
post #8

It seems like the point of this is to reduce junk mail by forcing a financial cost to sending mail thereby causing the sender to really consider the content of their message before sending it—except there is a real cost associated with sending traditional mail and there is still a huge amount of garbage traditional mail sent out every day. Maybe I’m missing the point, though?

There is really not that much junk mail in the traditional mail, in my experience. Probably it varies place to place, but it's much MUCH less than what I get in my gmail.

I think amounts of different types of spam one gets is variable, but it's trivial to ignore email spam. Even a smaller amount of spam in your snail mailbox has some negative side effects over spam in your email mailbox.

* An overstuffed mailbox tells burglars you're away

* There's more waste involved - it mostly goes to landfill (unopened)

* An overstuffed mailbox leaves less room for legit mail (most email services are good at creating a focused mailbox, so there's not the same signal to noise issue there)

* ID theft is probably easier from intercepting a preapproved credit card application than being able to hack your email password

Re: Sending newsletters should cost something

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> While (very much in theory), a few cents won't deter the casual emailer. Better yet. Require proof of work where the receiver sets the challenge level. Now you can whitelist people by offering trivial challenges for them. If you really want to email me it's going to take 2 minutes of CPU time - this will be done by the new mail clients in the background, so individual personal cost is essentially zero but bulk mai…

That's where we got the idea of proof-of-work in the 90s [1]. The problem is that this makes legitimate use cases like mailing lists very expensive, while providing little protection against spam from botnets. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashcash

Obviously a subscriber to a mailinglist need to set the cost to 0 for the list sender.

Re: Sending newsletters should cost something

#54
post #8

It seems like the point of this is to reduce junk mail by forcing a financial cost to sending mail thereby causing the sender to really consider the content of their message before sending it—except there is a real cost associated with sending traditional mail and there is still a huge amount of garbage traditional mail sent out every day. Maybe I’m missing the point, though?

But mail is always priced at a fixed rate. What if your inbox worked on a bonding curve, such that as it filled up it became more expensive to send to (except for whitelisted addresses you approve)? What if your inbox required that the sender owned a particular NFT (proof of membership in a community)? I mean there are infinite rules to play with in that sense. That's what excites me about crypto.

I think the most promising price scheme is one where the receiver can set it to arbitrary values. Are you in my contact list? Your price is zero. Are you one of my suppliers that likes to send me "new product" notifications every week? You can still send those, because I need to receive notifications from you, but your marketing department has to really want to talk to me because this will cost them 600 seconds of CPU. Did you come across my email on the Internet, and I don't know you at all? Sure, my email is in my signature for anyone to parse, but when you put it in the "To" field of your email client it will inform you it will take 300 seconds of CPU.

Re: Sending newsletters should cost something

#55
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> While (very much in theory), a few cents won't deter the casual emailer. Better yet. Require proof of work where the receiver sets the challenge level. Now you can whitelist people by offering trivial challenges for them. If you really want to email me it's going to take 2 minutes of CPU time - this will be done by the new mail clients in the background, so individual personal cost is essentially zero but bulk mai…

Don't take this the wrong way but... Oh great. Just as the environmental tire fire that is bitcoin and the other crypto-currency bros is winding down, let's replace it with email.

No no no, this one is actually genius. The cost to send an email some one who doesn't know you (and has a real, functioning email) becomes too high to do casually in terms of the base resource (CPU time), I literally could not spam even if I wanted to without throwing absurd resources at the problem, which presumably would also make detection and correction easier if some of these elder-abusing rackets are more profitable than that. But! I could still send you a real email.

It would come down to numbers of course on whether it was actually a good idea, and one of those numbers would have to be "how much work needs to be done before your average spam calling scammer is no longer profitable", but as it stands if there is a number sufficient for that that still allows for regular emails, then the incentive to burn machine time on sending out mass-emails is effectively removed.

Re: Sending newsletters should cost something

#56

Not sure if its a good idea, Email servers get hacked daily, If you’re auto-sending payment to receiver , now there is an incentive for hackers , to spam themselves with your inbox and you pay out of your wallet for that. Now, yes one could say, that’s no problem just have a multi-wallet approval method , so unless the second one approves, it wont. But now that makes it a bit more complex, especially for newsletters…

The money (probably crypto dust) should be burned instead of sent to the receiver. There should be just a proof of payment (or proof of burn). Could also be replaced with a proof of work for some hashing that the computer do.

Re: Sending newsletters should cost something

#57
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But mail is always priced at a fixed rate. What if your inbox worked on a bonding curve, such that as it filled up it became more expensive to send to (except for whitelisted addresses you approve)? What if your inbox required that the sender owned a particular NFT (proof of membership in a community)? I mean there are infinite rules to play with in that sense. That's what excites me about crypto.

What if you just click "spam" for the 1:10000 mails that make it through the filter and moved on with your day?

>I mean there are infinite rules to play with in that sense. That's what excites me about crypto.

Its pretty clear they also like to think about math, so you can probably answer why they don't 'just' do the thing you're asking yourself.

Re: Sending newsletters should cost something

#58

Not sure if its a good idea, Email servers get hacked daily, If you’re auto-sending payment to receiver , now there is an incentive for hackers , to spam themselves with your inbox and you pay out of your wallet for that. Now, yes one could say, that’s no problem just have a multi-wallet approval method , so unless the second one approves, it wont. But now that makes it a bit more complex, especially for newsletters…

A sibling comment thread makes the observation that proof of work with variable volumes of work set for different groups could be a good system. Like setting the work needed for your newsletter to 0, and complete unknowns take two minutes of CPU time, that sort of thing.

Re: Sending newsletters should cost something

#60
post #8

It seems like the point of this is to reduce junk mail by forcing a financial cost to sending mail thereby causing the sender to really consider the content of their message before sending it—except there is a real cost associated with sending traditional mail and there is still a huge amount of garbage traditional mail sent out every day. Maybe I’m missing the point, though?

> forcing a financial cost to sending mail

By doing this, you'll encourage the commercialization of email. The people who can fund sending email will be the ones who send email.

Frankly, I don't think email is broken, as is. It is very easy to subscribe and unsubscribe to email lists, and spam filtering generally works. It is relatively easy to control one's inbox, and it is completely under your control, as opposed to the many other services that have tried to replace it.

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