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Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

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Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#51

HNews people - multiple, lengthy comments here claim that "due to competitive pressures" the "total energy used to mine will be the same" no matter how hashes are calculated. The challenge problem in BTC is to find a number below a threshhold that fits a pattern. The threshhold changes in a two week regime. Finding the number is not prescribed, only the threshhold. Where is the required energy use here? Please illumi…

first reference:

Majority is not Enough: Bitcoin Mining is Vulnerable; Ittay Eyal and Emin Gün Sirer, 2014

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#52

HNews people - multiple, lengthy comments here claim that "due to competitive pressures" the "total energy used to mine will be the same" no matter how hashes are calculated. The challenge problem in BTC is to find a number below a threshhold that fits a pattern. The threshhold changes in a two week regime. Finding the number is not prescribed, only the threshhold. Where is the required energy use here? Please illumi…

The amount of mining being done would be driven by the price of mining (fixed + recurring) and the reward for mining. If you make mining cheaper you just get more mining, lowering energy usage per unit mining will increase the mining done to balance the reward. Actually lowering total energy usage would require lowering total reward or raising the price of energy.

this is a sort of economic framing, but also, not the question

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#53
One of the limited upsides I see with the cryptocurrency bubble is that it's funded some progress in ASICs, and if it funded progress in photonics that would actually be quite awesome.

Another upside is that it's funded a ton of very interesting cryptography research like SNARKs/STARKs and homomorphic encryption.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#54

What's this about manufacturing photonic reservoir computers with old CMOS processes? We can do matrix multiplication with photon-buckets or what? Edit: I guess I'll read the paper for its intro to photonics, I haven't really heard of doing useful math with this stuff https://assets.pubpub.org/xi9h9rps/01581688887859.pdf

Optical devices are physically large with waveguides about 1um and and most devices are a few hundred microns in size. The Mach Zehnders that they discuss are 100’s of microns in physical size. So it’s typical that silicon photonics are fabricated in older nodes in part because the resolution of advanced nodes is not needed and it’s a lot cheaper to use the older nodes. Additionally the sweet spot for silicon photonics is a wavelength ~ 1.3um (1.5um) so the node resolution is sufficient for the wavelength used.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#55
post #3

Green light is 200nm, but we are already approaching 2nm with electronics, wouldn't that make any equivalent light CPU 100x larger/slower?

Why would shorter wavelength light make computation faster? Silicon is a great absorber below about 1000nm so infrared wavelengths are used. 200nm is ultraviolet.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#56
post #24

Heh. I worked on a type of photonic PoW in 2019 (but it wasn't silicon photonics). - It's faster and lower power for the hash rate. It's worth it. But not as fast and low power as hoped. - It's a great advantage for the early adopter who can mine that bit faster than everyone else for a short time. That was the motivation for the project. - Contrary to the title of the article, making hashing faster for less energy d…

Appreciate your thoughtful explanation and context. The shortcut on "whenever you see a headline about low energy PoW" is useful, I had been wondering about that.

One thought - has there been anything on something like "Proof of Capability of Work"? ie "Yes, I have all this compute power potential, but I'm not using it".

Oh shit did I just back into what you mean by VDF? Basically Proof of Sitting Around? I'm gonna hit submit before talking myself in circles.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#57
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using PoW crypto at all creates massive waste for no productive use. In a world struggling to avoid catastrophic climate changes, it is completely irresponsible, and should be stopped instantly. Not to mention, crypto currencies are worse than traditional currencies in every way: much more wasteful than the whole global banking system for a tiny tiny tiny fraction of a percentage of the number of transactions, much m…

If we want to bring climate change under control then coordination and communication tools that cross national borders are necessary. That is what many of us working in crypto are focused on, you might not yet value it, but we do. How do we collectively, as a planet, decide what is acceptable usage of energy and what isn't? Who gets to use machines and who doesn't? And how do we do that in a way that isn't authoritar…

>Is it wrong to use my gpu playing video games all day, or is the moral panic only applying to certain uses of computers?

Is it wrong for you to leave a warehouse full of computers idling to play a computer game? Yes. This is one of the more outrageous false equivalences I've seen.

It stops being a moral panic when crypto consumes more electricity than the entire nation of Argentina.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Not to mention, crypto currencies are worse than traditional currencies in every way You've never been denied financial services due to discriminatory policies, or you would not claim that. Everything needs to migrate to the public blockchain: banking, online markets, social media platforms, etc. Giving a handful of corporations and governments control over almost every aspect of every one's lives is dangerous and…

Yes, much better to give such control to an algorithm and protocol written and controlled by a handful of engineers and mining pool owners. And make no mistake: in a state that allows or encourages financial institutions to discriminate, you will eventually be discriminated against with Bitcoin as well. The state may not have caught up to the technology yet, but social problems can't be fixed with technology.

> social problems can't be fixed with technology.

Do you think that 'social problems can't be caused by technology'? Because if social problems can be caused by technology then surely they can solve them too.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#59
I see these things and while interesting they are just a lab curiosity.

From the paper: By tuning the phase delays of each waveguide at each layer of the directional coupler mesh and the coupling region’s effective optical length using heaters it should be possible to achieve an arbitrary unitary transfer matrix

As these phase sections are thermally tuned, they are slow and will have thermal crosstalk to their neighbors. While this is manageable it’s not exactly fast to create a new matrix transfer. Additionally, these devices drift over time and operating temperature. Changes over time are due to changes in local stress that cause refractive index to change. So this device as published has no ability to put the MZM bias into a known state and keep it there. Drift is a part of working with photonic devices and even when temperature controlled (very inefficient) they still need compensation. This compensation is the difference between a lab device and something that could be commercialized.

Furthermore such devices have what we call parasitic reflections. When the phase is adjusted, the parasitic reflected phase is also adjusted creating an error in the output. For an analog computer that can only look at amplitude any numerical resolution would have to be coarser than the size of these parasitic reflections.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. Yet none of these papers ever address these problems.

Re: Cryptocurrency mining using integrated photonics

#60

HNews people - multiple, lengthy comments here claim that "due to competitive pressures" the "total energy used to mine will be the same" no matter how hashes are calculated. The challenge problem in BTC is to find a number below a threshhold that fits a pattern. The threshhold changes in a two week regime. Finding the number is not prescribed, only the threshhold. Where is the required energy use here? Please illumi…

It's not about the energy usage, it's about the cost: If you make energy two times as expensive, you would half the mining being done and half the energy usage. If you introduced a 50% global mining tax, you would also half the mining and the energy usage. If you invent technology that can do twice the mining for the same amount of energy, you would get twice the mining and the same energy usage.
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