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Minecraft to add telemetry

minecraft.net

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Re: Minecraft to add telemetry

#51

Post by mholm »

hulitu wrote: post #46
belval wrote: post #7

Eh Minecraft is a video game, I just don't see the privacy risk with "typical" Windows-level telemetry happening there. At some point we have to accept that this data actually helps them fix real issues too, they're not monetizing their players directly with it.

It did not helped them fix problems in Teams, Windows and Office 365. Why do you think Minecraft will be different.

Citation needed. Not every bug will be solved by telemetry, but that doesn't mean we wouldn't be in a very different state without it.

Re: Minecraft to add telemetry

#52

Post by oauea »

Interesting design choice to have the website not be scrollable while showing content outside the fold.

edit: Apparently this happens when running the "I don't care about cookies" browser extension, which is necessary to make the web somewhat usable after the EU's ridiculous ruling.

Re: Minecraft to add telemetry

#53

Post by hulitu »

conradev wrote: post #37
slg wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At some point we have to accept that this data actually helps them fix real issues too It is strange that this community of all communities has such a resistance to this idea. Software developers should know better than anyone how difficult it is to identify and fix vague software problems without having specific details about the problem. Yes, there is a negotiation between the value of telemetry and privacy and of…

I totally agree. Telemetry is invaluable to making software better. Transparency is key here. If projects explained the steps taken to anonymize the data (either provably using Differential Privacy, or approximated via some other means), I feel like people might trust them more. Even with DP, though, the server does see IP addresses, even if it doesn't know what the telemetry is, and that alone might cross the line f…

> I totally agree. Telemetry is invaluable to making software better.

Can you give 1(one) example of a program which was improved by using telemetry ? And no, trashing the UI in the name of change or modernism does not count.

Thank you.

Re: Minecraft to add telemetry

#54

Post by pdpi »

vkoskiv wrote: post #17

The phrase "...to better understand our [users] and to improve their experience..." always rings alarm bells in my head. It's corporate lingo for "We want to increase profits by selling your private data for as long as we can get away with it."

It's very generic phrasing, and some products do hide nefarious behaviour behind it, but it's also just an accurate description of the most innocent, straightforward use of telemetry out there. I, for one, can't think of a way to monetise Firebase stack traces.

This is a game, so let's use other games as examples. Here's two pretty damn good talks from GDC about what the value telemetry brings to the table (the StS one goes into a whole bunch of other stuff that's sort of irrelevant but also serves to motivate the telemetry topic):

* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Urx7WQE6NY0 * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rqfbvnO_H0

Re: Minecraft to add telemetry

#55

Post by tomc1985 »

slg wrote: post #28
belval wrote: post #7

Eh Minecraft is a video game, I just don't see the privacy risk with "typical" Windows-level telemetry happening there. At some point we have to accept that this data actually helps them fix real issues too, they're not monetizing their players directly with it.

>At some point we have to accept that this data actually helps them fix real issues too It is strange that this community of all communities has such a resistance to this idea. Software developers should know better than anyone how difficult it is to identify and fix vague software problems without having specific details about the problem. Yes, there is a negotiation between the value of telemetry and privacy and of…

I (like most here) have personally benefitted from extensive software telemetry but am generally against it in my personal life. But I also write business software where the expectation of privacy is already moot.

Gaming is a weird point though, telemetrics are already in heavy use, the privacy risk is indeed minimal, and gamers don't seem to care anyway though. I can't tell you how many GDC talks I've watched that discussed player heatmaps, incident (like death) reports, and whatnot used to fine-tune game balance.

There are numerous places where telemetry is completely inappropriate, like one's operating system. An idle computer should indeed be 100% idle, internal housekeeping exempted. (I recently installed freebsd on a new server, did some setup, and basked in the glory of htop showing 32 cores at 0.0% and a root process list that was under a page long. I wish other operating systems could follow that example)

Re: Minecraft to add telemetry

#56

Post by jaywalk »

sneak wrote: post #12
belval wrote: post #7

Eh Minecraft is a video game, I just don't see the privacy risk with "typical" Windows-level telemetry happening there. At some point we have to accept that this data actually helps them fix real issues too, they're not monetizing their players directly with it.

Windows-level telemetry is not "typical"; it includes a dozen or more different spy subsystems. Most spyware apps only include 1-3. If you are judging based on Windows as a benchmark, almost all software is going to come in as acceptable.

Well Windows is a little bigger than most apps, wouldn't you say?

Re: Minecraft to add telemetry

#57

Post by philliphaydon »

hulitu wrote: post #53
conradev wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree. Telemetry is invaluable to making software better. Transparency is key here. If projects explained the steps taken to anonymize the data (either provably using Differential Privacy, or approximated via some other means), I feel like people might trust them more. Even with DP, though, the server does see IP addresses, even if it doesn't know what the telemetry is, and that alone might cross the line f…

> I totally agree. Telemetry is invaluable to making software better. Can you give 1(one) example of a program which was improved by using telemetry ? And no, trashing the UI in the name of change or modernism does not count. Thank you.

Windows.

Re: Minecraft to add telemetry

#59

Post by ashton314 »

tomc1985 wrote: post #55
slg wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>At some point we have to accept that this data actually helps them fix real issues too It is strange that this community of all communities has such a resistance to this idea. Software developers should know better than anyone how difficult it is to identify and fix vague software problems without having specific details about the problem. Yes, there is a negotiation between the value of telemetry and privacy and of…

I (like most here) have personally benefitted from extensive software telemetry but am generally against it in my personal life. But I also write business software where the expectation of privacy is already moot. Gaming is a weird point though, telemetrics are already in heavy use, the privacy risk is indeed minimal, and gamers don't seem to care anyway though. I can't tell you how many GDC talks I've watched that d…

> freebsd on a new server

It always makes me happy to see how short the list returned from `ps aux` is with FreeBSD. Whereas if you go onto a typical Linux box (even just a raspberry pi!) and run that, you get at least a screenful of processes doing who knows what. (Just my small experience.)

Re: Minecraft to add telemetry

#60

Post by falcolas »

philliphaydon wrote: post #57
hulitu wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I totally agree. Telemetry is invaluable to making software better. Can you give 1(one) example of a program which was improved by using telemetry ? And no, trashing the UI in the name of change or modernism does not count. Thank you.

Windows.

How? I mean, in what way, and in response to which metrics?
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