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Physiognomic Artificial Intelligence

papers.ssrn.com

51–58 of 58 posts

Re: Physiognomic Artificial Intelligence

#51
post #50
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have a history ... in your family, you would probably want That's you personally. And the law enforcement? The HR? The neighbourhood?

Same problem as with all other diseases and predispositions we know of today.

So, consequently, prejudice is something that must be absolutely discouraged. In fact, you mentioned «injustice» as something to be «defeat[ed]», and that an individual can be subject to prejudice (owing to similarities to others) is radically unjust.

Edit: make the intellectual experiment, put yourself in those shoes and run the narration. It's you who has "that" trait. The law enforcement treats you differently. The HR treats you differently. The neighbourhood treats you differently. But you have your individual traits, not the virtual ones. Now put yourself in the other side: there is a trait for the median, and there is an individual there: how much should they rely on the trait of the median? Veeery relatively, and with all alert against pitfalls of bias, would not you say.

Re: Physiognomic Artificial Intelligence

#52
post #51
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same problem as with all other diseases and predispositions we know of today.

So, consequently, prejudice is something that must be absolutely discouraged. In fact, you mentioned «injustice» as something to be «defeat[ed]», and that an individual can be subject to prejudice (owing to similarities to others) is radically unjust. Edit: make the intellectual experiment, put yourself in those shoes and run the narration. It's you who has "that" trait. The law enforcement treats you differently. Th…

I compare it to me being in a wheelchair. I would want them to treat me differently, if their actions are just (whatever that means). Perhaps I am simply more optimistic than you.

Re: Physiognomic Artificial Intelligence

#53
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read the paper? However, among the 100 of 585 individuals with the highest probability of being gay according to the classifier, 47 were gay. In other words, the classifier provided for a nearly seven-fold improvement in precision over a random draw (47/7 = 6.71). The precision could be further increased by narrowing the targeted subsample. Among 30 males with the highest probability of being gay, 23 were ga…

Yes, and this further demonstrates how ridiculous the reporting on this result was. Their sample population was tiny and skewed, and this paragraph is a great example of why you can make your results look better to lay readers by reducing N (which in statistical terms should reduce your level of confidence in the result you got because the likelihood of spurious accuracy from random factors increases) and choosing wh…

How do you explain the accuracy going up with more samples then?

Also, it wasn't all 90/10. It was all pairwise:

Among men, the classification accuracy equaled AUC = .81 when provided with one image per person. This means that in 81% of randomly selected pairs—composed of one gay and one heterosexual man—gay men were correctly ranked as more likely to be gay. The accuracy grew significantly with the number of images available per person, reaching 91% for five images. The accuracy was somewhat lower for women, ranging from 71% (one image) to 83% (five images per person).

Re: Physiognomic Artificial Intelligence

#54
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are saying that there is no genetic component to personality? That's dumb. Are you saying there is no genetic component to facial features? Also dumb. Are you saying that there is no crossover whatsoever between the genetics that govern facial features and personality? Also dumb. There will be crossover above 0, it would extraordinary if there were 0 crossover. So there is likely some small correlation between fa…

You've missed an angle - the causal link between genetics and personality is completely overwhelmed by the non-causal correlation between genetics and social status. These models aren't going to pick up the correlation between facial structure and personality, they are going to pick up which families are high status and which are low, then provide the same pseudoscientific justifications for discriminating that peopl…

Causality is a nonsense: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hume

Re: Physiognomic Artificial Intelligence

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it could work. How do you know there is no signal there? Whether it does or not is an open question in my mind.

> How do you know there is no signal there? Because the shapes of portions of our bodies do not betray our moral character. It is nonsense, and debating this issue is so tiresome. I've worked in facial recognition for quite some time, and thank gawd nobody where I've worked had over-reaching opinions of our software's capabilities. For example, the "emotion recognition AI" fraudulently being marketed - we howled in l…

Why not?

Re: Physiognomic Artificial Intelligence

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any system that claims to work on that sort of input is almost certainly picking up socio-economic status of different races, or something similar, with no causal predictive power. I wonder which will have more predictive power, the version where you let the AI do it’s thing or the version where you intervene to correct for things that are almost certainly wrong according to you.

An AI doesn't do "it's thing", it learns with the bias the researcher encoded in the model, and most importantly in this case, with the massive bias of the datasets. Correcting is just steering a bias from one way to another.

Bias is relative to a null hypothesis, you are just begging the question. Predictive power is the final arbiter

Re: Physiognomic Artificial Intelligence

#57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An AI doesn't do "it's thing", it learns with the bias the researcher encoded in the model, and most importantly in this case, with the massive bias of the datasets. Correcting is just steering a bias from one way to another.

Bias is relative to a null hypothesis, you are just begging the question. Predictive power is the final arbiter

> Predictive power is the final arbiter

But how do you measure that predictive power? Humans do have to build an evaluation set. And that evaluation set will be biased one way or the other, you cannot just pretend bias does not exist and hope for the best.

Re: Physiognomic Artificial Intelligence

#58
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and this further demonstrates how ridiculous the reporting on this result was. Their sample population was tiny and skewed, and this paragraph is a great example of why you can make your results look better to lay readers by reducing N (which in statistical terms should reduce your level of confidence in the result you got because the likelihood of spurious accuracy from random factors increases) and choosing wh…

How do you explain the accuracy going up with more samples then? Also, it wasn't all 90/10. It was all pairwise: Among men, the classification accuracy equaled AUC = .81 when provided with one image per person. This means that in 81% of randomly selected pairs—composed of one gay and one heterosexual man—gay men were correctly ranked as more likely to be gay. The accuracy grew significantly with the number of images…

Why do you think that defining accuracy in relative terms works in favor of this model? This pairwise relative measure should give you less confidence that the model generalizes, because now we don't even have an idea of what the relative levels of confidence given by the models between these pairs are, just that they were ordered correctly. This further supports my claim that the way they're measuring results is designed to make them appear more significant than is justified

Explaining the model becoming more "accurate" by this measure is pretty easy. The model is working with an extremely small and skewed dataset for this sort of thing, and has overtrained to tendencies in the dataset. Given the kinds of numbers we're working with and that measure, a jump from 81 to 91% "accuracy" does not seem particularly significant, especially given that, again, the classifier fails meet even the baseline of accuracy we need under a more realistic accuracy measurement to beat a null hypothesis, and probably this baseline would need to be even higher to reflect the lower statistical power of this standard of accuracy.

In any real-world application, this classifier would need to make a judgement in situ based on some threshold of confidence. From that perspective, this metric is worse than useless, because while it doesn't really demonstrate that the result is even as significant as the (again, not meeting the base rate) thresholds described in the summary of it, this methodological smoke and mirrors has seemingly convinced you after reading it more thoroughly. I imagine this is similar to the process by which these systems are sold to investors

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