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6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

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Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#51

Post by jabl »

bserge wrote: post #4

So they don't actually know what direction to take aircraft in and decided on stealth. Seems reasonable, all else being equal, the party that is detected last has a higher chance of winning. What happens when a new detection method is developed that makes these planes not stealthy? Don't you then just have 4-5th gen craft that cost 2-10x as much? Guess it takes a real war to discover the actual winner of modern warfa…

Like you say yourself, stealth isn't a binary thing, but rather a set of techniques to reduce the detection range.

You can be assured that Russia and China are working hard on technology to detect stealth planes (e.g. multistatic radar systems). But again, it's not a binary thing. Even with a multistatic radar setup, a stealth aircraft will have lower detection range than a non-stealthy one. And considering both China and Russia are developing stealthy aircraft like Su-57 and J-20, it seems they themselves are not thinking that they have the magic technology that would make stealth obsolete.

Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#52

Post by kukx »

wombatmobile wrote: post #49

War is in part an expression of technological competitive advantage. Nth generation weaponry is expensive because technology requires the best minds, materials, and facilities that money can buy. But what if for the same money, or less, we could buy something even better? How much does peace cost? Has anybody ever costed it? For example, what could $2 trillion have bought in Iraq, Portland, or Jerusalem if it had bee…

Weapons are also tools for peace, an atomic bomb helped a lot in that regard.

Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#53

Post by neuronic »

jasonwatkinspdx wrote: post #24
pathseeker wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The navy was in a conflict with illiterate goat herders?

I can decode this rant. The Zumwalt class started out as a requirement from the armed forces committee in congress for a replacement for the old battleship Naval Gunfire Support mission. That is sit a bit off the coast and go boom with big guns to help the boots on the ground. Just one wee little problem with that: anti ship missiles have made that a suicide mission since approximately the late 60s. And no, all the s…

Prime example of why military spending needs to be cut in half at least to focus on what's important. Not to weaken the military but to stop bullshit like this in its track.

Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#54

Post by neuronic »

predictmktegirl wrote: post #42

How does a “6th generation” fighter still have a human inside? What’s so generational about it?

The next generation of bullshit military spending?

A trillion for Afghanistan and F-35 each. Jeez, what could we have built with $2 trillion in investments? What cool companies, technologies or infrastructure could have sprung from this?

Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#55

Post by deadalus »

wombatmobile wrote: post #49

War is in part an expression of technological competitive advantage. Nth generation weaponry is expensive because technology requires the best minds, materials, and facilities that money can buy. But what if for the same money, or less, we could buy something even better? How much does peace cost? Has anybody ever costed it? For example, what could $2 trillion have bought in Iraq, Portland, or Jerusalem if it had bee…

You need to trust the other party in order to have a shot at peace. There is no trust due to historical reasons. War also directly benefits a lot of people and industries so they would never want that.

Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#56

Post by CraigJPerry »

dendrite9 wrote: post #38
systemvoltage wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a tired argument, and slightly hypocritical. Usually, the same people are proponents of not-so-useful but indirectly beneficial science projects and space exploration. But when it comes to military, the same reasoning gets thrown out of the window. Defense is a necessary evil and history has shown that things go from peaceful to high-tension heated global theater in no time. The inertia of training people to…

This is a valuable point. I know you're right but I still find myself bristling at some of the defense projects that don't seem necessary to me. But there is value in maintaining the expertise and processes.

It’s not an either-or proposition. It’s possible to have a reasonable offensive (& defensive) capability while not spending so eye wateringly much on the MIC.

Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#57

Post by snicker7 »

wombatmobile wrote: post #49

War is in part an expression of technological competitive advantage. Nth generation weaponry is expensive because technology requires the best minds, materials, and facilities that money can buy. But what if for the same money, or less, we could buy something even better? How much does peace cost? Has anybody ever costed it? For example, what could $2 trillion have bought in Iraq, Portland, or Jerusalem if it had bee…

The last 70 or so years have been the most peaceful in human history. How? The American military and economic hegemony. If you want peace, build more aircraft carriers.

Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#58

Post by Epa095 »

snicker7 wrote: post #57
wombatmobile wrote: post #49

War is in part an expression of technological competitive advantage. Nth generation weaponry is expensive because technology requires the best minds, materials, and facilities that money can buy. But what if for the same money, or less, we could buy something even better? How much does peace cost? Has anybody ever costed it? For example, what could $2 trillion have bought in Iraq, Portland, or Jerusalem if it had bee…

The last 70 or so years have been the most peaceful in human history. How? The American military and economic hegemony. If you want peace, build more aircraft carriers.

Correlation causation

Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#59

Post by wombatpm »

alfiedotwtf wrote: post #9

I've seen contractors who are artful in taking government contracts for a long and extended ride, but Defence contractors take it to the next level.

3 rules of defense contracting:

1) Get the money. DOD likes to talk about future contracts. Nothing is real until contract is signed

2) Keep the money. DOD likes to cost sharing where the contractor has to pay the Military for the things they were already going to do, facilities that already exist, etc

3) Get more money. A contract just sets you up for winning the next contract

Re: 6th Generation Stealth Fighter: Joint Effort by UK, Japan, Italy and Sweden?

#60

Post by veltas »

wombatmobile wrote: post #49

War is in part an expression of technological competitive advantage. Nth generation weaponry is expensive because technology requires the best minds, materials, and facilities that money can buy. But what if for the same money, or less, we could buy something even better? How much does peace cost? Has anybody ever costed it? For example, what could $2 trillion have bought in Iraq, Portland, or Jerusalem if it had bee…

The defence industry already makes many tools for peace. A lot of effort goes into making tools to counteract opposing weaponry, much of which can be applied to defend civilians. But also weapons can defend civilians. The problem isn't having defence, it's how you use it.
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