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Intel is reducing server chip pricing in attempt to stem the AMD tide

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Re: Intel is reducing server chip pricing in attempt to stem the AMD tide

#51

Post by jes »

swalsh wrote: post #44
lvl100 wrote: post #25

Intel is NOT competing against AMD only. In the past couple of years, we’ve seen a number of big tech companies developing their own chips. Focusing on AMD would be quite myopic from a strategic pov. This market is only getting more competitive. Either you compete on performance or price.

After purchasing an M1, i'm starting to realize how viable ARM is as a main platform. Nearly everything I want to run on it has a natively built version, and runs great on it. I could easily move anything I've built to a server running ARM with little frustration. I think that may be a bigger part of the coming future.

Same. I’ve been loving my M1 Mac Mini for almost a year. Cool, silent, fast and compact.

Re: Intel is reducing server chip pricing in attempt to stem the AMD tide

#52

Post by nevi-me »

For the eventual consumers of the servers at the discounted prices: are we going to see the price decrease benefits?

If say GCP/AWS/Azure decide to build a DC in a new region, and they go blue primarily because of the discounts, would the pricing end up being slightly smaller than otherwise?

I can understand that electricity, cooling and other costs would have an influence; but I'm wondering whether performance & price per watt end up being passed or recouped downstream.

Re: Intel is reducing server chip pricing in attempt to stem the AMD tide

#53

Post by jtdev »

nevi-me wrote: post #52

For the eventual consumers of the servers at the discounted prices: are we going to see the price decrease benefits? If say GCP/AWS/Azure decide to build a DC in a new region, and they go blue primarily because of the discounts, would the pricing end up being slightly smaller than otherwise? I can understand that electricity, cooling and other costs would have an influence; but I'm wondering whether performance & pri…

Runtime costs are generally higher for comparable Intel CPUs due to electricity usage… so I would not expect any cost reduction passed on to consumers in the scenario you describe.

Re: Intel is reducing server chip pricing in attempt to stem the AMD tide

#54

Post by dippersauce »

swalsh wrote: post #44
lvl100 wrote: post #25

Intel is NOT competing against AMD only. In the past couple of years, we’ve seen a number of big tech companies developing their own chips. Focusing on AMD would be quite myopic from a strategic pov. This market is only getting more competitive. Either you compete on performance or price.

After purchasing an M1, i'm starting to realize how viable ARM is as a main platform. Nearly everything I want to run on it has a natively built version, and runs great on it. I could easily move anything I've built to a server running ARM with little frustration. I think that may be a bigger part of the coming future.

Before M1 my only exposure to ARM has been low-power SBCs and Android devices, and the experience was mediocre in the “just works” department. Poor hardware support, and a lack of proprietary software support. Performance was also lacking. Apple’s tight integration and high-end CPUs have resulted in a vastly better experience, but I want to have more options than just macOS and MacBooks. I think we’re trending in the right direction, but it’s going to be a while before (5 years IMO) before we see anything approaching competitive to the M-series chips from major market players. If Microsoft could fix their frankly horrid x86 compatibility on aarch64 devices thing would speed along nicely I think.

Re: Intel is reducing server chip pricing in attempt to stem the AMD tide

#55

Post by aeyes »

the-dude wrote: post #33
tomalpha wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this not just the efficient-market at work? Simplistically: Intel's chips aren't as good as AMDs so it has to drop prices. And for future investment Intel still has ~ $24 billion cash on hand as of June 2021 [0] [0] https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/INTC/intel/cash-on...

Isn't a new fab around $20bn?

You usually don't buy the construction of a new fab with cash.

Re: Intel is reducing server chip pricing in attempt to stem the AMD tide

#56

Post by starfallg »

christophilus wrote: post #22
starfallg wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel drank the management consultant kool-aid like many large pharmaceuticals corps, relying more on financial engineering than their research pipeline to compete. The flip side is that they have lots of money to splash around. Companies like Pfizer for example.

Did they? I thought they made a heavy bet that hasn’t paid off (and maybe never will).

You're right for the 10nm (7nm) process development. They focused on shrinking the wrong parts and ended up with an inferior product. Instead of changing direction, they doubled down.

Re: Intel is reducing server chip pricing in attempt to stem the AMD tide

#57

Post by lmilcin »

jtdev wrote: post #53
nevi-me wrote: post #52

For the eventual consumers of the servers at the discounted prices: are we going to see the price decrease benefits? If say GCP/AWS/Azure decide to build a DC in a new region, and they go blue primarily because of the discounts, would the pricing end up being slightly smaller than otherwise? I can understand that electricity, cooling and other costs would have an influence; but I'm wondering whether performance & pri…

Runtime costs are generally higher for comparable Intel CPUs due to electricity usage… so I would not expect any cost reduction passed on to consumers in the scenario you describe.

Exactly. Energy usage and density are major costs. Data centers throw away perfectly good hardware because at some point if you factor in density and energy usage that CPU might be worth less than zero.

Re: Intel is reducing server chip pricing in attempt to stem the AMD tide

#59

Post by tenebrisalietum »

dippersauce wrote: post #54
swalsh wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After purchasing an M1, i'm starting to realize how viable ARM is as a main platform. Nearly everything I want to run on it has a natively built version, and runs great on it. I could easily move anything I've built to a server running ARM with little frustration. I think that may be a bigger part of the coming future.

Before M1 my only exposure to ARM has been low-power SBCs and Android devices, and the experience was mediocre in the “just works” department. Poor hardware support, and a lack of proprietary software support. Performance was also lacking. Apple’s tight integration and high-end CPUs have resulted in a vastly better experience, but I want to have more options than just macOS and MacBooks. I think we’re trending in the…

> If Microsoft could fix their frankly horrid x86 compatibility on aarch64 device

I don't think Microsoft is the real problem there, though.

NT was developed to be portable and was working on architectures other than x86 in the beginning.

So it was interesting when I heard things about "Windows on ARM" half a decade ago--and then the Surface RT. The RT was crap, but it did have real Windows NT working on non-Intel ARM, as was the OS on their Windows Series 10 phones or whatever.

So Microsoft is already there on an OS level. It's the big software vendors that have to be corralled to switch somehow (Autodesk, Adobe, etc.) Honestly .NET overall was probably at least in part Microsoft trying to get developers on something more CPU-agnostic to reduce dependence on x86.

Re: Intel is reducing server chip pricing in attempt to stem the AMD tide

#60

Post by HelloNurse »

giuliomagnifico wrote: post #21

Intel needs better (especially with less energy consumption) chips not lower price. If Intel will lower the price they will have less cash for R&D and this is the trouble for intel now: not much competitive chips. And where are again at the beginning of the circle. I hope they will make an internal review of their offices/laboratories/whatever, is not a price issue with the chips, is a performance and technical issue…

Don't assume that increased R&D spending leads to better products and/or reduced time to market, at least quickly.

There are consistent signs of technical decline at Intel, and "reviewing" underperforming units into oblivion is likely to drain away talent and destroy more value faster.

EDIT: other comments point out that Intel is sitting on an awful lot of cash. It can be safely assumed that Intel is spending as much as possibly useful on R&D and that their results are limited by talent and strategic choices, not by cheapness.

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