Live data from Hacker News

RIP Jekyll (The Genesis of the Jamstack)

bridgetownrb.com

51–60 of 187 posts

Re: RIP Jekyll (The Genesis of the Jamstack)

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Closely related, I wish we had a better way of saying a library or product is now feature-complete. We use recent commit activity as a proxy of viability, but all of that churn could just as easily be an indication of immaturity. It's okay for tools to achieve their objectives and just live on as stable code with maintenance releases as needed. To my mind, Jekyll is feature-complete. The only changes I've needed to m…

I get what you're saying, and for single-purposes libraries or other simple infrastructure, that totally makes sense. But Jekyll lives in a wider world of vital tools from Gatsby to Eleventy to Hugo to (fill in the blank of your favorite SSG), and if it can no longer serve its main audience relative to compelling alternatives, it's not feature-complete, it's obsolete.

I'd imagine Jekyll's main audience is GitHub Pages and it seems to be used quite widely there. I get what you're saying, but I don't think Jekyll needs to compete with every single site generator on every feature. Gatsby is a case where the whole concept is taken in a wildly different direction and that's fine. I can't use Gatsby the way I use Jekyll and so Gatsby isn't the tool for me. But, Jekyll takes Markdown and turns it into HTML really well and has done so for over a decade. It's really not that complicated a tool.

I think there's probably two levels of discussion going on here. In very broad terms and with a generous scope of "we", we largely treat anything written in the last 15 years differently than anything that came before it. I don't know if it's because GitHub makes it so easy to see source or because recent languages have public repositories or something entirely different. But, no one looks at `bzip2` or `dig` and dismisses them as being obsolete because they don't have a hockey stick shape on the commit graph or because they don't serve multiple possible functions. To qrush's point, there has been a recent push to create "modern" implementations of system utilities and so we now have `ripgrep` and `bat` and maybe those new tools will reign supreme. But, I don't think that means `grep` or `cat` are dead and it's fantastic that they've worked reliably and consistently for so long (minus GNU vs BSD differences).

So my lament, if you will, is software being declared dead just because activity on it has slowed down (or essentially ceased). I think another way to interpret that data is it's mature and stable. I think it's great that Jekyll is a reasonably stable utility that I can rely upon. I can even install it via `apt` now and not have to deal with the mess of maintaining a Ruby environment. I can push a commit to GitHub and have a high degree of certainty that my site will generate the way I expect and that can match what I see on my own local system.

That level of maturity is something I'd like to see more software approach. In my experience, constantly chasing use cases often transforms a tool or library that was great at one thing into a tool that is okay at best at several things. Breaking compatibility is a good way to start annoying your supporters.

Maybe Jekyll won't be adopted for greenfield projects and that'll lead to its obsolescence. I just think that's a premature proclamation. It has a massive installation base via GitHub Pages, so stability is likely the better lever to pull.

Re: RIP Jekyll (The Genesis of the Jamstack)

#53
post #37
post #13

> Open source in 2021 looks like: > Engagement on Twitter > Official Discord chat room Cherry picked from a list with 4 others elements that I agree with, but the first two are terrible. Twitter is getting more and more closed (you can't see some stuff without being logged in now) and for Discord you have to create an account to see the content. Both are not free software. Reading stuff around free software shouldn't…

Don't disagree but tbf he also said: > Lack of any one of these points isn’t the end of the world, but at the present moment, Jekyll lacks ALL of them. That’s a real problem. I think the point is that most projects will engage with the public in at least some of these ways.

That's true, but I don't see how Jekyll would be improved with a Twitter and a Discord.

Re: RIP Jekyll (The Genesis of the Jamstack)

#54
I dont often say this on the internet but WFT?

I am autistic. I love coding.

A single person can create wonderful software that is a gift to everyone as open source.

I hate trying to be an extrovert and engage with a lot of people. I hate twitter and discord

Does that mean that I and people like me cannot do open source in 2021?

Most of these seem like detriments more than anything.

* Engagement on Twitter * Official Discord chat room * Public roadmap * Predictable release cycles * Welcoming community involvement in shaping new features and tackling technical debt * Cultivating working relationships with wider ecosystems (in this case Ruby, Jamstack, etc.)

Re: RIP Jekyll (The Genesis of the Jamstack)

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mastodon and Matrix instead?

Not for mainstream projects - plus those places tend to become political mudwaters, because freedom in tech has become political the past few years.

Agreed about Mastodon, unfortunately.

But that has not been my experience with Matrix.

Re: RIP Jekyll (The Genesis of the Jamstack)

#56

I dont often say this on the internet but WFT? I am autistic. I love coding. A single person can create wonderful software that is a gift to everyone as open source. I hate trying to be an extrovert and engage with a lot of people. I hate twitter and discord Does that mean that I and people like me cannot do open source in 2021? Most of these seem like detriments more than anything. * Engagement on Twitter * Official…

The very next sentence in the article:

> Lack of any one of these points isn’t the end of the world, but at the present moment, Jekyll lacks ALL of them. That’s a real problem.

Nobody cares if there's no Discord if you're releasing and responsive to Github issues / roadmap questions.

Re: RIP Jekyll (The Genesis of the Jamstack)

#58
post #21

I use Jekyll for a static site and I guess I just don't really understand why it needs further development. I haven't upgraded my version of Jekyll since I think 2017 because it does what it says on the tin. Sometimes it's ok for software to be "done".

The stability is precisely what I like about Jekyll. I can come back to a website I haven't touched in years and update it and it works. It's so rare for software to work like that.

The latest version of GNU sed is almost two years old. Does that mean it's time to ditch it for the latest rewritten-in-Rust tool du jour? Of course not.

Infrastructural software such as Jekyll should be finishable.

Re: RIP Jekyll (The Genesis of the Jamstack)

#59
post #17

Hi, original Jekyll "core team" (if it could be called that) member here - just wanted to say thanks for writing this up, and I had no idea about the current status of the project or that one of the maintainers recently passed away. That all being said: I think it's ok for OSS projects to "pass on" - and hopefully be replaced by better ones! I wish we had a better way of recognizing this for projects or talking about…

Closely related, I wish we had a better way of saying a library or product is now feature-complete. We use recent commit activity as a proxy of viability, but all of that churn could just as easily be an indication of immaturity. It's okay for tools to achieve their objectives and just live on as stable code with maintenance releases as needed. To my mind, Jekyll is feature-complete. The only changes I've needed to m…

Yes, it's not far off!

I do use some simple plugins for things like Redirects and Sitemaps.

But for many sites we build, what Jekyll does right now is just fine.

It also works with CloudCannon. Who are expanding their supported SSGs.

So if we shift our business, we'll likely just follow what ever SSG is blessed by them! :-)

Re: RIP Jekyll (The Genesis of the Jamstack)

#60
post #9
post #4

What do people use besides Jekyll?

I've been using Hugo as well. I used Pelican (Python port of Jekyll) for a long time, but Hugo is so much more performant and has a larger ecosystem at this point. The main downside is that the Hugo documentation is sometimes terse and snarky.

With regards to performance, I used Hugo like 3 or 4 years ago now, and it was insanely fast!

Compared to really sluggish build times with Jekyll/Ruby it was incredible!

Some sites went from 10s of seconds to what felt like instant build!

However, with new versions of Ruby and M1 Macs, I dont notice build lag in Jekyll anymore!

And overall, I much preferred Jekyll and the way it structured sites, template and includes! :-)

Post reply on HN