We don’t need nearly as much protein as we consume • Hacker News Board

Re: We don’t need nearly as much protein as we consume

#51

Post by slothtrop » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:13 PM UTC

rtpg wrote: post #39

wombatmobile wrote: post #26

TFA curiously asks questions about what the body really needs, in order to investigate a processed food category from an industry that spends billions on advertising and technology designed to make people eat more than they need for only one reason - to generate profits for manufacturers. What the body really needs is not processed foods, which are loaded with salt, sugar, and fat [0, 1]. Processed foods are what the…

What is the magical problem with processed foods? It’s not like the body can tell if something was smooshed by a machine or by my mouth. I kinda believe it but it’s real “chemicals!!” sort of generality. I can imagine a granola bar being less bad than like… my grandma’s paté

Between stripping away all fiber and phytonutrients/prebiotics (which aren't returned in "enriched" products), and the added fat that tends to throw off the omega 3/6 balance, and the sugar, and the salt, there are negative outcomes. Typically are high calorie with low satiety, and yields a high insulin response to boot. Processed meats also bad owing to nitrates but also salt and very high saturated fat typically paired with refined carbohydrates. Saturated fat in itself appears to only raise total cholesterol levels (considered a risk by health authorities but some disagree), but when paired with sugar and carbs the ldl/hdl profile worsens and CVD risk heightens.

Re: We don’t need nearly as much protein as we consume

#52

Post by tudorw » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

open-source-ux wrote: post #49

tovej wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's one unmentioned aspect of this that's especially sinister. Salt, sugar, and fat are addictive.

Sugar remains a villain, but the issue of fat is more complex. Not all fats are equal. For example, high-fat foods like nuts, butter, avocados, cold-pressed olive oil etc do not occupy the same space as highly processed fats (e.g. trans fat/hydrogenated fat). Salt remains divisive among health researchers after many years of public campaigns warning the public to limit salt intake. But is it less harfmul than previou…

https://youtu.be/nOub_6Ph5S0

Re: We don’t need nearly as much protein as we consume

#53

Post by nradov » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:15 PM UTC

tsimionescu wrote: post #36

HanaShiratori wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have to do with poor research methodologies specifically in the field of nutritional science, since they do not differ from other fields. It's just that people are easily exploited by the industry because they believe there is a cheat code in dealing with obesity and other food related diseases

Research methodologies in nutrition are almost universally underpowered for the results they claim. You'll very rarely find double-blind clinical trials with large numbers of participants, and since we know little of the possible confounding factors between individuals when it comes to nutrition, that's what you need. Instead, most knowledge in nutrition comes either from extremely small clinical studies (often less…

Nutritional studies also frequently suffer from the healthy subject effect. Dietary is highly correlated with other behaviors in ways that are difficult to control for.

Re: We don’t need nearly as much protein as we consume

#54

Post by dragontamer » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:18 PM UTC

chii wrote: post #45

bingohbangoh wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One wonders where the line is drawn with processed foods as well. Take sausages. These have been around for ages but are, technically, processed. Are these now bad? They seem to pass the lindy test.

> where the line is high salt and/or sugar content foods, whether processed or not, is probably not great for you. It's just that "processed foods" usually have extra flavourings added (such as salt) to enhance it, for sale purposes. So instead of targeting processed foods, the targeting for healthy eating should be portion size and amount, followed by freshness.

Canned or frozen can contain more nutrients because of the preservation process though. Fresh foods lose nutrients as they are shipped around.

The vitamins may have leached into the water, but toss that water into a soup and you're good.

I don't think freshness matters much at all. Flour certainly doesn't need to be fresh to make good bread.

Re: We don’t need nearly as much protein as we consume

#55

Post by Ambolia » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:19 PM UTC

0-_-0 wrote: post #13

adflux wrote: post #4

So I thought carbs were bad? Oh no, it was fat right? Or sugar, or meat, or... This article is a convoluted joke, just like the rest of the nutritional science field. In few other fields can you find so many contradictory theories. Mainly due to the poor research methodologies.

Since macronutrients are interchangeable to some degree, they could have written an article called "We don’t need nearly as much fat as we consume" or "We don’t need nearly as much carbs as we consume" as well.

Seeing the obesity crisis in the UK, you could just write "We don't need nearly as much food as we consume".

Re: We don’t need nearly as much protein as we consume

#56

Post by slothtrop » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:22 PM UTC

Rompect wrote: post #34

wombatmobile wrote: post #26

TFA curiously asks questions about what the body really needs, in order to investigate a processed food category from an industry that spends billions on advertising and technology designed to make people eat more than they need for only one reason - to generate profits for manufacturers. What the body really needs is not processed foods, which are loaded with salt, sugar, and fat [0, 1]. Processed foods are what the…

No. I've been eating beef meat, chicken and a suet that is 99.8% fat for more than a month now and it's great. Nobody needs vegetables or nuts.

"Needs" is ambiguous. You can survive on garbage. Optimal health is probably the metric focused on here. Meat-only is an elimination diet that, if followed properly, avoids refined products (or allergens) that yield adverse effects. That doesn't mean that including vegetables doesn't yield better results. The long, thorough body of research suggests it does.

Re: We don’t need nearly as much protein as we consume

#57

Post by slothtrop » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #31

lumost wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a bit dubious of the articles core claim that excess protein is wasteful - the alternative of excess fat/carbs is wasteful and harmful. I don’t use any sports supplements but I do try to prioritize my diet in terms of protein > fat > carbs. It’s tough to find unprocessed protein sources that aren’t at least somewhat healthy. Even red meat provides a great iron source at 1 8 oz filet every week or 2.

Don't worry, all the healthy fats and slow released carbs are much worse than the worst protein source. Excess protein might be wasteful to the wallet and the environment, but at least it will not get you as fat.

Calories get you fat. It's CICO. Protein is satiating, which is a major advantage if weight-loss is a goal. But then again, so is fiber. Many people have successfully lost weight on a high fiber diet.

Re: We don’t need nearly as much protein as we consume

#58

Post by slothtrop » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:26 PM UTC

timwaagh wrote: post #30

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #5

Required Protein intake depends on many other factors. Carbs are protein preserving. If someone does a lot of weight lifting and or really hard cardio and is on a low carb diet, they will have an elevated protein requirement, else the body will simply consume its own proteins, aka muscle and tendon tissue, you don't want that. For the average Joe with a sitting job and zero sports activity and a regular no care diet,…

Weightlifting concerns aside (I think a man's need to look good is a very legitimate concern) very high protein is linked to decreased life expectancy and cancer. So even if it doesn't cause belly flop it's still not healthy.

Doesn't that depend on the type of protein? Specifically, too much muscle-tissue protein.

Re: We don’t need nearly as much protein as we consume

#59

Post by Rompect » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:26 PM UTC

Ambolia wrote: post #29

I wouldn't trust mainstream nutrition advice coming out from any country with a >20% obesity rate. So maybe from Japan, China, Thailand, Indonesia or Buthan. But not from the UK.

Sadly, I wouldn't trust any mainstream nutrition advice at all. When you see the McDonalds and Coca Cola logos behind footballers, and find out that the food pyramid was made by the Department of Agriculture and unsurprisingly advocates for crops, you become really suspicious.

Re: We don’t need nearly as much protein as we consume

#60

Post by wombatmobile » Mon, Sep 06, 2021, 2:27 PM UTC

rtpg wrote: post #39

wombatmobile wrote: post #26

TFA curiously asks questions about what the body really needs, in order to investigate a processed food category from an industry that spends billions on advertising and technology designed to make people eat more than they need for only one reason - to generate profits for manufacturers. What the body really needs is not processed foods, which are loaded with salt, sugar, and fat [0, 1]. Processed foods are what the…

What is the magical problem with processed foods? It’s not like the body can tell if something was smooshed by a machine or by my mouth. I kinda believe it but it’s real “chemicals!!” sort of generality. I can imagine a granola bar being less bad than like… my grandma’s paté

> What is the magical problem with processed foods?

It's not that it's "processed" necessarily. Your grandmother processes fresh pumpkin to turn it into pumpkin soup, and that's still healthy, nutritious, and delicious.

The problem with food from Cargill. Nestle, Pepsico, Kraft, Unilever, Kellog, General Mills and the like is the added sugar, added fat, and added salt in every can, box, jar, bottle and packet they sell in supermarkets.

Read the labels. They'll tell you how much sugar, fat and salt is in every 100g of product.

If its more than 2g of sugar per 100g, you're being manipulated to crave and buy more.

Check the ketchup and the breakfast cereal labels. Compare the sugar in those to the sugar in Coke. What do you find?

How much sugar is listed in the label for your granola bar?