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The iPhone 13 Does Not Have Satellite Internet, Band N53 and Globalstar

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Re: The iPhone 13 Does Not Have Satellite Internet, Band N53 and Globalstar

#51

Post by AdamJacobMuller »

lanna wrote: post #42
umeshunni wrote: post #2

I find it representative of the sorry state of tech 'journalism' that anyone would think that a cell phone in 2021 is capable of satellite internet. A quick search will show anyone the size of even the smallest Starlink receiver and common sense dictates that current generation phones cannot have any meaningful signal strength connecting to even an LEO satellite.

> In 2007, RIM [...] held multiple meetings after the iPhone was launched and accused Apple of lying about the capabilities of the new device. The claims focused on how it was impossible that a device with such a larger touch display could have any usable battery life. [0] > [...] it couldn’t do what they were demonstrating without an insanely power hungry processor, it must have terrible battery life, etc. Imagine t…

The only "sorry state of tech journalism" is over-reporting this as "omg it totally will" instead of "qualcomm released a new chip which could pave the way for the iPhone to have satellite connectivity"

The issue isn't limited to tech journalism at all and in fact tech journalism may be the least affected by this issue of all.

But, frankly, I know my headline won't generate as many clicks or views and that's why they do it. Because we collectively react more to the sensational.

The fault, dear lanna, is not in our stars, but in ourselves.

Re: The iPhone 13 Does Not Have Satellite Internet, Band N53 and Globalstar

#52

Post by simonh »

Retric wrote: post #29
umeshunni wrote: post #2

I find it representative of the sorry state of tech 'journalism' that anyone would think that a cell phone in 2021 is capable of satellite internet. A quick search will show anyone the size of even the smallest Starlink receiver and common sense dictates that current generation phones cannot have any meaningful signal strength connecting to even an LEO satellite.

I agree it wasn’t going to happen, but I understand their confusion. Current satellite phones are the size of regular cellphones. That’s the equivalent of very low bandwidth internet access, but even low bandwidth access can still be really useful. https://www.g-comm.us/iridium-9555-satellite-phone.html Dropping that to something that fits in an iPhone would be a very significant improvement, but it hardly breaks the…

The antennas on those things are monstrous compared to anything on a mainstream smartphone. The image in the link is of it collapsed, this is what it looks like extended. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Iridium-Satellite-Prepaid-Airtime-I...

That’s dictated by basic physics and it’s not going in an iPhone effectively ever. Iridium satellites are in geo orbit though. You might be able to make a useful connection to something in LEO with a more compact antenna, but the satellites would have to be designed to support that. Current star link satellites have antennas designed to work with current star link base station antennas, not phone scale antennas. That could change though.

Re: The iPhone 13 Does Not Have Satellite Internet, Band N53 and Globalstar

#53

Post by [deleted] »

simonh wrote: post #52
Retric wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree it wasn’t going to happen, but I understand their confusion. Current satellite phones are the size of regular cellphones. That’s the equivalent of very low bandwidth internet access, but even low bandwidth access can still be really useful. https://www.g-comm.us/iridium-9555-satellite-phone.html Dropping that to something that fits in an iPhone would be a very significant improvement, but it hardly breaks the…

The antennas on those things are monstrous compared to anything on a mainstream smartphone. The image in the link is of it collapsed, this is what it looks like extended. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Iridium-Satellite-Prepaid-Airtime-I... That’s dictated by basic physics and it’s not going in an iPhone effectively ever. Iridium satellites are in geo orbit though. You might be able to make a useful connection to something…

[deleted]

Re: The iPhone 13 Does Not Have Satellite Internet, Band N53 and Globalstar

#54

Post by tvb »

nynx wrote: post #9
imwillofficial wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GPS doesn’t count as “internet”

All smartphones already have GPS?

True, but note the GPS data transmission rate is only 50 bps; yes, just 50 bits per second. The signal is so week and so slow that after headers and error correction you get less than 4 bytes of data per second.

When comparing satellite reception it's not so much if you can receive data or not, but at what bandwidth. By contrast, data rates for Starlink are roughly 50 to 100 megabits per second; a million times greater than GPS.

So that's why the Starlink dish and electronics are orders of magnitude larger than a phone. Or to put it another way, that's why mobile phones can handle GPS data but not Starlink data.

Re: The iPhone 13 Does Not Have Satellite Internet, Band N53 and Globalstar

#55

Post by zamalek »

lanna wrote: post #42
umeshunni wrote: post #2

I find it representative of the sorry state of tech 'journalism' that anyone would think that a cell phone in 2021 is capable of satellite internet. A quick search will show anyone the size of even the smallest Starlink receiver and common sense dictates that current generation phones cannot have any meaningful signal strength connecting to even an LEO satellite.

> In 2007, RIM [...] held multiple meetings after the iPhone was launched and accused Apple of lying about the capabilities of the new device. The claims focused on how it was impossible that a device with such a larger touch display could have any usable battery life. [0] > [...] it couldn’t do what they were demonstrating without an insanely power hungry processor, it must have terrible battery life, etc. Imagine t…

> In 2007, RIM [...] held multiple meetings after the iPhone was launched and accused Apple of lying

That in itself is completely absurd. The iPhone was disruptive because it had a slick touch interface and thoughtful UX. There were phones doing vastly more (e.g. multitasking) than the iPhone years prior (Symbian, Windows CE), with a full day of battery life. It's no wonder RIM ended if they were that disconnected from the smartphone market.

Re: The iPhone 13 Does Not Have Satellite Internet, Band N53 and Globalstar

#56

Post by simonh »

Retric wrote: post #47
mikestew wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it slightly disingenuous to just pretend that big honkin’ antenna isn’t there and then say “it’s the size of regular cellphones”. My Motorola Startac from 25-30 years ago didn’t have an antenna that big.

It’s 143mm x 55mm, the iPhone pro is 146.7 mm x 71.5 mm and the iPhone pro MAX is 160mm x 78 mm. Granted it’s also thicker and slightly heavier, but calling it cellphone sized is reasonable IMO.

That’s with the antenna collapsed. Extending it looks like it adds another 10cm or so.

Re: The iPhone 13 Does Not Have Satellite Internet, Band N53 and Globalstar

#57

Post by GeekyBear »

I have no idea if it will make it into the next iPhone, but it's certainly something Apple has been dumping R&D money into for several years.

From 2019:

>Apple Inc. has a secret team working on satellite technology that the iPhone maker could use to beam internet services directly to devices, bypassing wireless networks, according to people familiar with the work.

The Cupertino, California-based iPhone maker has about a dozen engineers from the aerospace, satellite and antenna design industries working on the project with the goal of deploying their results within five years

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-12-20/apple-has...

Gurman has the best sources inside Apple, and he is still saying that emergency satellite communications (as currently sold in tiny devices like the Garmin Inreach Mini) are actively being worked on.

>The rumored satellite features for future iPhones are reserved for emergency uses only, according to Bloomberg’s Mark Gurman. A few days ago, a report by well-known analyst Ming-Chi Kuo said the next iPhones will come with support for Low Earth Orbit satellite calls and messages. Gurman’s sources said, however, that Apple isn’t turning its devices into actual satellite phones, at least for now. Instead, the tech giant is reportedly developing at least two emergency-related features relying on satellite networks.

https://techcrunch.com/2021/08/31/apples-rumored-iphone-sate...

Kuo has the best sources inside Apple's supply chain, but we've seen him get the timeline wrong for components graduating from prototypes to mass production before.

Re: The iPhone 13 Does Not Have Satellite Internet, Band N53 and Globalstar

#58

Post by GeekyBear »

Retric wrote: post #29
umeshunni wrote: post #2

I find it representative of the sorry state of tech 'journalism' that anyone would think that a cell phone in 2021 is capable of satellite internet. A quick search will show anyone the size of even the smallest Starlink receiver and common sense dictates that current generation phones cannot have any meaningful signal strength connecting to even an LEO satellite.

I agree it wasn’t going to happen, but I understand their confusion. Current satellite phones are the size of regular cellphones. That’s the equivalent of very low bandwidth internet access, but even low bandwidth access can still be really useful. https://www.g-comm.us/iridium-9555-satellite-phone.html Dropping that to something that fits in an iPhone would be a very significant improvement, but it hardly breaks the…

Devices that can send an emergency beacon to LEO are tiny.

https://www.iridium.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/mini3.jpg

Here it is with the case removed so you can see how big the helical antenna is.

https://fccid.io/img.php?id=1547768&img=bg1.png

Apple dumped a bunch of R&D money on a group of antenna experts years ago, so we'll see if they came up with a flat alternative to a helical antenna for satellite communications in the same way that the terrestrial cell phone networks did.

Re: The iPhone 13 Does Not Have Satellite Internet, Band N53 and Globalstar

#59

Post by xvf22 »

Retric wrote: post #26
xvf22 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of startups works on impractical stuff. Not to pass judgement but the fact that startups are trying doesn't necessarily confirm validity. See wireless power.

You can buy a range of actual wireless power tech today going all the way back to crystal radio‘s. Charging pads, RFID tags, and fully radio powered sensors etc aren’t want we thing of as wireless power but yesterday’s magic is today’s background noise.

More thinking ubeam now sonicEnergy.

https://liesandstartuppr.blogspot.com/2017/06/arguing-point....

Re: The iPhone 13 Does Not Have Satellite Internet, Band N53 and Globalstar

#60

Post by Fatalist_ma »

Satelite "internet"? All I have read about is the ability to send emergency text messages. The author goes on a tirade about how you can't browse Bloomberg with a 256kbps internet. Straw man much?

> As per GlobalStar, they are capable of up to 256kbps (32Kbps). This is with optimal, unobstructed conditions and high power and gain antennas.

For text messages, even 256 bps is more than enough, hell, even 2 bps is usable for that.

> The source of this rumor is from Ming Chi Kuo

Ignores that the linked article from Bloomberg does not rely on Ming Chi Kuo and is much more concrete than just "the modem supports a frequency".

> Globalstar believes that over half their revenue will come from terrestrial spectrum licencing.

...

> The most likely path forward, and the one that Globalstar proclaims themselves, is licensing this spectrum for use on a terrestrial basis

...

> The recent meteoric rise in Globalstar’s stock price is almost entirely unwarranted.

??? If you're claiming that the new frequency in Iphones is for terrestrial use, then that validates Globalstar’s own strategy, so how is it unwarranted?

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