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Overuse of the word “the” in “Macbeth”

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Re: Overuse of the word “the” in “Macbeth”

#51

Post by mojuba »

ldjb wrote: post #48

Macbeth is certainly a creepy play, and certainly there is a lot of creepy language (e.g. Lady Macbeth's "Have pluck'd my nipple from his boneless gums, And dash'd the brains out"). But I never felt that this was due to repetition of particular words, so this was interesting to read about. That said, although these days it is uncommon to use generic nouns with the definite article ("the"), I understand that this was…

The article literally says: "So they compared word-usage in Macbeth to Shakespeare’s overall writing" - and found several creepy words in the top 15, also the word "the" occurring more frequently compared to his other plays.

But I agree, we don't know what the real reason was for Shakespear's choice in this case, just that it explains what contributes to the creepiness for the modern readers.

Re: Overuse of the word “the” in “Macbeth”

#52

Post by fumblebee »

The opening sentence sort of broke my mind. It reads:

> Macbeth is a creepy play.

But my brain wanted really badly to swap the emphasised word:

> Macbeth is a creepy play.

Edit: Maybe that was the point of the author. A couple of paragraphs later they say “Actors and critics have long remarked that when you read Macbeth out loud, it feels like your voice and mouth and brain are doing something ever so slightly wrong. There’s something subconsciously off about the sound of the play, and it spooks people.”

Re: Overuse of the word “the” in “Macbeth”

#54

Post by IAmEveryone »

a_e_k wrote: post #50

I got curious about how all the other plays ranked. For example, which plays used those words the least? So I downloaded the text files from the Folger Shakespeare Library ( https://shakespeare.folger.edu/downloads/txt/shakespeares-wo... ) and ran this command to get a rough count of "the" and "th'" vs. the total words: for f (*.txt); do echo $f; tr " \r" "\n\n" Here were the results that gave me, formatted into a ta…

It’s quite something that the Scottish play comes out on top, however. It would work with a hypothesis that, for example, Shakespeare was using this pattern subconsciously, whenever the situation called for an eerie mood.

I’d also be interested in seeing if the 2:1 difference isn’t larger than for other authors?

Re: Overuse of the word “the” in “Macbeth”

#55

Post by ldjb »

mojuba wrote: post #51
ldjb wrote: post #48

Macbeth is certainly a creepy play, and certainly there is a lot of creepy language (e.g. Lady Macbeth's "Have pluck'd my nipple from his boneless gums, And dash'd the brains out"). But I never felt that this was due to repetition of particular words, so this was interesting to read about. That said, although these days it is uncommon to use generic nouns with the definite article ("the"), I understand that this was…

The article literally says: "So they compared word-usage in Macbeth to Shakespeare’s overall writing" - and found several creepy words in the top 15, also the word "the" occurring more frequently compared to his other plays. But I agree, we don't know what the real reason was for Shakespear's choice in this case, just that it explains what contributes to the creepiness for the modern readers.

Thanks, I must have overlooked that paragraph.

Re: Overuse of the word “the” in “Macbeth”

#57

Post by KwanEsq »

fumblebee wrote: post #52

The opening sentence sort of broke my mind. It reads: > Macbeth is a creepy play. But my brain wanted really badly to swap the emphasised word: > Macbeth is a creepy play. Edit: Maybe that was the point of the author. A couple of paragraphs later they say “Actors and critics have long remarked that when you read Macbeth out loud, it feels like your voice and mouth and brain are doing something ever so slightly wrong.…

Macbeth isn't actually being emphasised in that sentence, rather it is using italics to demarcate the title of a work. A music album or movie's name would also appear italicised. (If they've done it right Macbeth should only be in an , or , rather than an , though who knows what their CMS allows/is capable of)

Re: Overuse of the word “the” in “Macbeth”

#58

Post by bsza »

fumblebee wrote: post #52

The opening sentence sort of broke my mind. It reads: > Macbeth is a creepy play. But my brain wanted really badly to swap the emphasised word: > Macbeth is a creepy play. Edit: Maybe that was the point of the author. A couple of paragraphs later they say “Actors and critics have long remarked that when you read Macbeth out loud, it feels like your voice and mouth and brain are doing something ever so slightly wrong.…

It's quite common practice to write the title of something in italics. I think this is just that, not an emphasis.

Example: https://jayshams.medium.com/moby-dick-is-not-a-novel-e19e41f...

Re: Overuse of the word “the” in “Macbeth”

#59

Post by ncmncm »

a_e_k wrote: post #50

I got curious about how all the other plays ranked. For example, which plays used those words the least? So I downloaded the text files from the Folger Shakespeare Library ( https://shakespeare.folger.edu/downloads/txt/shakespeares-wo... ) and ran this command to get a rough count of "the" and "th'" vs. the total words: for f (*.txt); do echo $f; tr " \r" "\n\n" Here were the results that gave me, formatted into a ta…

It might be worth noting that all the other plays that scored anywhere close to the Scottish play (427) are much longer. You have to go down to 17 (344) to get to a shorter play; only 6 (397) and 15 (345) approach it. If we scale by length twice (count/length^2), the contrast becomes more stark (retaining original order):

    |    1 | macbeth                     |  724 | 16929 | 252 |
    |    2 | henry-v                     | 1065 | 25577 | 162 |
    |    3 | coriolanus                  | 1126 | 27294 | 151 |
    |    4 | loves-labors-lost           |  855 | 21093 | 192 |
    |    5 | henry-viii                  |  962 | 24074 | 165 |
    |    6 | the-merchant-of-venice      |  834 | 20985 | 189 |
    |    7 | henry-iv-part-2             | 1001 | 25762 | 150 |
    |    8 | henry-vi-part-2             |  990 | 25597 | 151 |
    |    9 | hamlet                      | 1142 | 30006 | 126 |
    |   10 | henry-iv-part-1             |  856 | 24100 | 147 |
    |   11 | henry-vi-part-3             |  866 | 24491 | 144 |
    |   12 | antony-and-cleopatra        |  861 | 24465 | 143 |
    |   13 | king-lear                   |  898 | 25661 | 136 |
    |   14 | the-winters-tale            |  854 | 24568 | 141 |
    |   15 | king-john                   |  717 | 20730 | 166 |
    |   16 | cymbeline                   |  959 | 27738 | 124 |
    |   17 | a-midsummer-nights-dream    |  564 | 16377 | 210 |
    |   18 | richard-iii                 |  985 | 28914 | 117 |
    |   19 | richard-ii                  |  753 | 22224 | 152 |
    |   20 | henry-vi-part-1             |  715 | 21575 | 153 |
    |   21 | pericles                    |  605 | 18282 | 181 |
    |   22 | troilus-and-cressida        |  837 | 25810 | 125 |
    |   23 | titus-andronicus            |  659 | 20621 | 154 |
    |   24 | alls-well-that-ends-well    |  724 | 22683 | 140 |
    |   25 | measure-for-measure         |  693 | 21858 | 145 |
    |   26 | the-tempest                 |  518 | 16489 | 190 |
    |   27 | the-comedy-of-errors        |  455 | 14552 | 214 |
    |   28 | the-two-noble-kinsmen       |  735 | 23751 | 130 |
    |   29 | julius-caesar               |  592 | 19251 | 159 |
    |   30 | as-you-like-it              |  664 | 21692 | 141 |
    |   31 | twelfth-night               |  573 | 19675 | 148 |
    |   32 | othello                     |  737 | 25670 | 111 |
    |   33 | much-ado-about-nothing      |  591 | 20843 | 136 |
    |   34 | romeo-and-juliet            |  677 | 23948 | 118 |
    |   35 | the-merry-wives-of-windsor  |  604 | 21603 | 129 |
    |   36 | timon-of-athens             |  504 | 18262 | 151 |
    |   37 | the-taming-of-the-shrew     |  449 | 18709 | 128 |
    |   38 | the-two-gentlemen-of-verona |  404 | 17010 | 139 |
with only 17 and 27 breaking 200, and still well shy of 252.

But the real point of the article is that the oddity of "the" in the frequency table attracted their attention to that word, and led them to identify an actual peculiarity in its usage. To say henry-v demonstrates anything similar, you would need to check if usage in that play is similarly peculiar (which I have not done either).

It seems odd to suggest (as some commenters have done) that the difference was subconscious. My null hypothesis is that peculiarities in usage by a professional wordsmith are deliberate. I expect to see actual evidence that the author didn't know what he was up to.

Re: Overuse of the word “the” in “Macbeth”

#60

Post by [deleted] »

fumblebee wrote: post #52

The opening sentence sort of broke my mind. It reads: > Macbeth is a creepy play. But my brain wanted really badly to swap the emphasised word: > Macbeth is a creepy play. Edit: Maybe that was the point of the author. A couple of paragraphs later they say “Actors and critics have long remarked that when you read Macbeth out loud, it feels like your voice and mouth and brain are doing something ever so slightly wrong.…

[deleted]
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