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Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

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Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#51
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? That seems like the worst situation tbh, being put in a position where you are suing people with legal expertise, and in a scenario where you could be afraid of being blacklisted for any future prospects. IANAL, but the law field seems to be very prone to elitism and group cohorting.

I disagree with you. These kinds of open-and-shut defiances of the law are easy for an average employment attorney to negotiate reasonable compensation (I.e. an elite lawyer doesn’t need to be found) and the circumstances are obviously bad enough that they don’t mark the employee as a troublemaker, and that’s assuming the case even makes the news.

Look, I agree you disagree with me too... (sorry I am Canadian).

That doesn't change the fact that there are hurdles that atleast factor in to how the human who was fired in that scenario may feel? And isn't that a major component to the human experience, how we feel, especially in the situation where your employeer fired you for a reason you learned was their mistake? That's full on feel mode for me, I don't know if you have an iron will or what, but you can't always assume that the person in this case would take a step back and accurately make the correct rational judgment you have outlined (see? more agreeing from me!). I would personally be afraid to be blacklisted from the law field, as reputation matters. Even being known as someone who is litigious against your employer whilst also garnering news coverage (great, your name is everywhere for future employers to see) seems to the very _least_ be a tradeoff of getting justice vs all that negative shazz I mentioned.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone with diagnosed IBS could get a note in an email exchange with their primary physician.

Oh they had a primary physician?

Someone diagnosed them with IBS

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#53
post #5

> According to the filing, when she told a manager in November about her IBS and that she needed to use the bathroom up to six times a day, the manager told her to get a doctor's note. It appeared from the filing that Olivero didn't get the note. > Olivero then said in the filing that in January her manager said she was going to be written up, and that she'd need to get a doctor's note within five days. That seems...…

From random reading on the DOL website I am pretty sure she should not have been fired. However, some of her pay could have been withheld (possibly contingent on her being classified as hourly or piecewise paid). The previously tested scenario was dialysis.

So as I understand it, if you have e.g. end stage kidney disease, you don't need to inform your employer of the fact you must be gone two times a week for three hours, and they can not fire you when they find out. But they also don't have to pay you.

However the rules about salaried positions seem to imply they can't reduce your salary.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#54
post #49
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it varies, yes. People have smaller bladders, some have larger. It also depends on how reactive you are to the sensation of a full bladder, and how risk averse you are to having it full -- perhaps you have had bladder issues, infections, etc. in the past and are mandating a self policy of frequent urination. But it's just a reference range, and if you ever took a blood test, you realize they might not matter…

The person you're replying to did not make any leap or make any kind of universal judgement. On the contrary it was the person claiming that everyone should be using the bathroom every 2 hours who is making a universal claim. All OP did was point out a single counterexample and in doing so is implying that there is probably not one single universal rate that people should be going to the bathroom.

Perhaps I really was the center of the universe in my mind. Thanks for clarifying, I've retracted my incorrect tone, cheers.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#55
post #19
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why require a doctor's note at all? Humans need to go to the bathroom sometimes, and six times in a workday is, while higher than average, not terribly so. If your business processes cannot deal with humans who need to use the bathroom, that's the fault of the business process, not of the humans. It's like me running code on a cloud instance and then asking Amazon for a hardware tech's note when it reboots for hardwa…

You're forgetting this is a warehouse employee where productivity is tracked and ranked against other employees. Amazon cannot write up one employee and not another without something like a dr. note to justify the different treatment.

I think you misread my comment. I'm specifically not advocating for different treatment. I'm saying any employee who wants to use the bathroom six times a day should be permitted to do so, IBS or no IBS. If you want to enjoy the ambiance of the bathroom six times a day, that's fine.

So, Amazon can easily write up neither employee, which means they don't need anything to justify the different treatment.

(Also, no, Amazon can write up one employee and another just fine. They're an independent company in a free country. They don't answer to Lord Business who tells them they have to run their business a certain way. They can do whatever they like, provided they don't run afoul of a few laws like Title VII or the ADA. And all that will happen if they do run afoul of those laws is they'll get sued - which is exactly what happened under their current policies, so....)

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#56
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not requiring a doctor's note for going to the restroom infrequently seems a bit more on the reasonable end. I'd have more sympathy for Amazon if, say, she was AWOL from work for more than an hour a day with no explanation. Humans are not machines and deserve some flexibility with their time.

to me 6 times during working hours is frequent by any measure, but that's hardly the important thing here. there has to be a line somewhere. is 8 frequent? 10? there is some threshold X, what we care about most is the response to crossing it and the response seems eminently reasonable. getting a note in 2 months is just not a draconian requirement no matter how it is spun. i have to give benefit of the doubt and assu…

> there has to be a line somewhere. is 8 frequent? 10? there is some threshold X, what we care about most is the response to crossing it

Are you okay with your employee or client installing screen tracking software on your computer so someone can decide appropriate thresholds for your work and bathroom habits?

> I'm sorry but this is the reality if you work a menial job where you are easily replaced.

Are we back to calling essential work “menial” already?

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#57
post #34
post #5

> According to the filing, when she told a manager in November about her IBS and that she needed to use the bathroom up to six times a day, the manager told her to get a doctor's note. It appeared from the filing that Olivero didn't get the note. > Olivero then said in the filing that in January her manager said she was going to be written up, and that she'd need to get a doctor's note within five days. That seems...…

The scenario becomes weird when you take a step back and realize that she is a human being and bodily functions are even being monitored in such a way. I go to the bathroom sometimes more than her and the reasons are extremely defensible even outside medical reasons. Drink water often and see (although I would say perhaps with electrolytes mixed in as not to flush them out). I would not even doubt this was an excuse…

It sounds like you've never worked with people who intentionally "use the bathroom" to not work. If you step out of your white collar tech bubble for a moment you'd realize giving _two months_ to give a doctor's note before reprimanding this woman is perfectly reasonable.

Blue collar work / retail is not like tech where your output is not necessarily a function of hours worked. In tech you can go to the bathroom 8 hours a day as long as you get your work done. Can you say the same for a warehouse worker?

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#58
post #22
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going to urgent care to get a routine doctor's note for a non-urgent situation wouldn't be covered by insurance, would it?

Walk-in clinics are affordable and frequently faster than urgent care.

Where are these quick, affordable, walk-in GI specialist clinics you speak of?

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#59

If the issue led to termination it's at least conceivable that it's a little more complicated than the staffer is letting on. If the person took six 5-minute breaks and got their tasks accomplished, no problem. But if they took 6 20-minute bathroom breaks, that's 2 hours out of a day in the bathroom, on a daily basis. That's an employee who's away from their workstation fully 1/4 of their day. Are they really able to…

As someone who’s dealt with this exact situation, someone with a “bowel issue” likely doesn’t take 5 minute poops unless they have diarrhea. 20 minutes is about normal when you’re constipated but have to poop 5 times a day. If you don’t go to the bathroom you’re in pain and unfocused until you poop and until you’re done pooping. What’s spent in those 20 minutes? Dreading people will say exactly what you just said while dealing with your very real but very embarrassing chronic illness. Can’t hold a job down but can’t qualify for disability. Luckily I’ve made strides in my health that I don’t live that hell anymore but not everyone is that lucky.

Re: Amazon Staffer Says She Was Fired over Bathroom Breaks for Bowel Issue

#60

If the issue led to termination it's at least conceivable that it's a little more complicated than the staffer is letting on. If the person took six 5-minute breaks and got their tasks accomplished, no problem. But if they took 6 20-minute bathroom breaks, that's 2 hours out of a day in the bathroom, on a daily basis. That's an employee who's away from their workstation fully 1/4 of their day. Are they really able to…

When I worked at one of these warehouses, anything over 30 minutes per day of 'time off task' out of a 10 hour shift was supposed to get you written up. Time off task being defined as any period greater than 5 minutes without doing work that the computer tracked.
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