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Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

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Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#51

Post by rpedela »

catmanjan wrote: post #36
ageitgey wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love postgres and the full-text search feature works great in some use cases, but it is not really comparable to elastic search in many scenarios (huge document stores, complex text processing or querying, etc).

Do you know for sure that postgres doesn't perform as well as elasticsearch if you don't use the relational capabilities of postgres? Instinctively I believe what you're saying, just wondering if you know for sure.

Yes I know for sure. Postgres search is essentially an easier to use regex engine. If you have a recall-only use case and/or a small dataset, then that works great. As soon as you need multiple languages, advanced autocomplete, misspelling detection, large documents, large datasets, custom scoring, etc you need Solr or ES.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#52

Post by djmips »

fragmede wrote: post #33
catmanjan wrote: post #3

Can't Amazon just serve these bogus headers and keep opensearch compatible? It's not like headers are copyrighted...

Likely! It worked against SEGA, in the Sega v. Accolade case. Unlicensed Accolade (and later, SEGA Dreamcast homebrew games) displayed a Sega copyright logo because they were (believed to be) needed to run arbitrary executables.

As a side note, although Accolade won this case, the injunction that SEGA won earlier prevented Accolade from selling product for a while and that cash flow problem motivated their primary investor to step in and remove the company's founder and all top executives and bring in their own team which directly led to the end of Accolade as a going concern (my opinion). Of course in this case, Amazon isn't as vulnerable as Accolade was back then.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#53

Post by Mikeb85 »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #20
__blockcipher__ wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a false narrative. Both Elastic and Amazon are making a killing. > Elastic (NYSE: ESTC) ("Elastic"), the company behind Elasticsearch and the Elastic Stack, announced strong results for its fourth quarter and full fiscal year (ended April 30, 2021). Total revenue was $177.6 million, an increase of 44% year-over-year, or 39% on a constant currency basis.

Is that true? Let's examine this claim a bit more closely. Net profit margin for the quarter -24.38%, net income for the quarter -43.3M, sales growth slowing by double-digit percent every year since 2018. It's possible to take in a ton of money and still lose money.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say if they're losing money with $177 million in revenue it's because they're expanding quickly, made a bunch of acquisitions, etc... No way they're losing money on operations.

Edit - just looked it up, they have free cash flow for the year and a $400 million cash position. Tons of deferred revenue too.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#54

Post by StopHammoTime »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #7
thedougd wrote: post #4

I use to be a huge proponent of Elastic.co for search. I paid for their Elastic Cloud Enterprise product to offer an internally hosted Elastic as a Service. We ran a proof of concept with the the open source Elastic Stack before requesting the funding to get commercial support and the extra management features. I'm not sure I can recommend them anymore. The company doesn't seem to understand their customer's journey…

It is easy to judge another’s actions from afar when it’s their meal and roof they’re working for. It’s okay for Amazon (a trillion dollar company) to make money off of their work but not themselves? Imho, the problem isn’t “well it’s not open source anymore then.” The problem is people who give more weight to a religion/philosophy than sustainability. Who cares if it’s open source if the people developing it can’t s…

Uhh, no. "Trillion dollar company BAD, think of the billion dollar company!!!". Elastic made it's business off being open source, period. If they weren't open source to begin with they wouldn't be as successful as they have been. Their whole business model initially built off the popularity of a useful open source project.

Of course, once you add-on that they've basically done to Lucene what AWS did to Elasticsearch, then the whole thing is a joke. I also just checked and Elastic are NOT sponsers of the ASF: https://www.apache.org/foundation/thanks.

Absolute garbage company in terms of open source and community. I will never willingly install their software ever again.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#55

Post by joshxyz »

whalesalad wrote: post #11

PostgreSQL should be everyone’s first choice for a data store. It can do so much, including serving as your full text search system.

I don't think so, elastic's https://www.elastic.co/guide/en/elasticsearch/reference/curr... is quite ahead of that.

Example here https://www.judyrecords.com/info

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#57

Post by threeseed »

whalesalad wrote: post #11

PostgreSQL should be everyone’s first choice for a data store. It can do so much, including serving as your full text search system.

a) Elasticsearch should not be used as a primary data store.

b) PostgreSQL does not compare to Elasticsearch when it comes to full text searching capabilities.

c) PostgreSQL has no vendor-supported, built-in solution for horizontal scalability which is a big reason why you would choose Elasticsearch over a more lightweight search system.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#58

Post by threeseed »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #43
tempest_ wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elastic's main selling point is not so much the full text search. The search is what it does but most of it's value is centered in the management/scaling/monitoring of full text search over many machines. I love Postgres but it's "clustering" story is definitely not as user friendly.

Have a look at YugabyteDB then.

Why would I do that when Elasticsearch is a proven search engine.

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#59

Post by rpdillon »

echelon wrote: post #5
thedougd wrote: post #4

I use to be a huge proponent of Elastic.co for search. I paid for their Elastic Cloud Enterprise product to offer an internally hosted Elastic as a Service. We ran a proof of concept with the the open source Elastic Stack before requesting the funding to get commercial support and the extra management features. I'm not sure I can recommend them anymore. The company doesn't seem to understand their customer's journey…

It's hard to blame them when Amazon is eating their lunch. Well, it's more like they made a sandwich, Amazon stole it, and now Amazon is selling it to other people. Meanwhile Elastic.co is starving. It's not a fair game anymore. I hope the DOJ breaks them up into three or more companies.

I don't understand this argument. It's weird enough to me when folks say "steal" in the context of copyright, but in the context of FLOSS software, it seems wholly inappropriate. Third-party hosting of open source is the norm, not the exception, in my experience.

The antitrust argument seems orthogonal: lots of small companies make money hosting FLOSS software (Bitnami[0] comes to mind, but so do other hosting companies like Dreamhost). I just searched "elasticsearch hosting" on DDG[1], and Elastic is the 5th result, behind four companies I've never heard of. In many ways, that's exactly what makes FLOSS so attractive to me: if one provider isn't suitable, I can switch. I was very grateful for this in 2013 when I had a huge issue with a change in how LShift was hosting RabbitMQ, and I was able to move my company's cluster over to CloudAMQP instead. I had a similar issue with Elastic in 2016: they didn't offer compute-heavy nodes, but our application was compute heavy (geohashing-intensive for the majority of queries). I discussed with the Elastic sales team, and they said they had no timeline for this, so we migrated the company to AWS ElasticSearch.

So I guess I'm not sure how things are improved if Amazon is broken up...even if AWS had to stand on its own, this seems like it would remain a proven business strategy that customers value and is used across the industry.

[0]: https://bitnami.com/stack/elasticsearch [1]: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=elasticsearch+hosting

Re: Official Elasticsearch Python library no longer works with open-source forks

#60

Post by Salgat »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #7
thedougd wrote: post #4

I use to be a huge proponent of Elastic.co for search. I paid for their Elastic Cloud Enterprise product to offer an internally hosted Elastic as a Service. We ran a proof of concept with the the open source Elastic Stack before requesting the funding to get commercial support and the extra management features. I'm not sure I can recommend them anymore. The company doesn't seem to understand their customer's journey…

It is easy to judge another’s actions from afar when it’s their meal and roof they’re working for. It’s okay for Amazon (a trillion dollar company) to make money off of their work but not themselves? Imho, the problem isn’t “well it’s not open source anymore then.” The problem is people who give more weight to a religion/philosophy than sustainability. Who cares if it’s open source if the people developing it can’t s…

Plenty of major databases are able to operate in a self-sustaining manner while remaining completely open. NoSQL is a highly competitive field, it's not enough to go "well we should accept their behavior because they deserve special treatment".
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