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The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

leidenmedievalistsblog.nl

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Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#51

Post by eigenket »

drewzero1 wrote: post #35
duxup wrote: post #13

I always thought city builders are a weird mix of sort of free market / authoritarian beliefs: In most city builder games involve some planning, incentives provided, and people just show up, do their thing, growth is endless, build a business, and there you go. On the other hand in most city builders the player makes all the decisions and can act at will with no regard to his local citizens ;)

Can you imagine a real mayor simulator, where you'd have to get elected and answer to the city council and constituents? I expect most would find that boring, but it might be a fun (or at least educational) experience for some.

Frostpunk has a little of this - there aren't any elections but if you piss people off enough they'll run you out of town (and you lose the game).

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#52

Post by mountainb »

publicola1990 wrote: post #4

Even modern city builders are inaccurate in the sense that timelines of how long it takes to build things aren't Modelled correct. Plus organic city growth is rarely simulated. Cities skylines for example has no concept of slums. Also the annoying Western/Eurocentrism. Eg: See the recent game Dorfromantik, its aesthetically pleasing, it is rustic european scenery, but why isn't it not set in Indonesia or Ecuador or U…

Cool then start an indie dev shop in Uzbekistan and make it happen. I will preorder the game if you do it for the hell of it, even if it is bad.

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#53

Post by krab »

drewzero1 wrote: post #35
duxup wrote: post #13

I always thought city builders are a weird mix of sort of free market / authoritarian beliefs: In most city builder games involve some planning, incentives provided, and people just show up, do their thing, growth is endless, build a business, and there you go. On the other hand in most city builders the player makes all the decisions and can act at will with no regard to his local citizens ;)

Can you imagine a real mayor simulator, where you'd have to get elected and answer to the city council and constituents? I expect most would find that boring, but it might be a fun (or at least educational) experience for some.

Tropico has this component of elections.

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#54

Post by mastax »

Jowsey wrote: post #22
littlecranky67 wrote: post #6

I would love a building game where you can't build roads. All of those building games so far allowed that, but I think it would be more fun to just allow for constructing building, and roads/pathway would form depending on their connectivity inside the production chain. I.e. you wouldn't connect your farm to a butcher, but pathways would form and eventually turn into street based on the amount people from dependent s…

I believe this is coming in Manor Lords.

Wow, that game looks impressive especially for a solo developer.

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#55

Post by mastax »

Rd6n6 wrote: post #21

I’m actually beginning some informal research on 17th century Europe for a small game right now. There are some village life and village builder aspects. It’s the beginning of the “modern” period and just after the renaissance. What is life like for the local business owner? Who would they be? What extent is it still feudal serfdom in during ? It’s an interesting time with massive social, scientific, and religious ch…

ACoUP is incredible, though not specific to that time period: https://acoup.blog/resources-for-world-builders/

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#56

Post by eigenket »

0xdada wrote: post #7
sprafa wrote: post #3

It’s interesting and most likely not applicable - for the very same reasons you cant get realistic sword fighting (or even street fighting) in most Hollywood movies: realistic fighting doesn’t look as exciting as the fake thing. Glad the author sees into that very clearly. * Could be an interesting art game tho as someone pointed out below

> Medieval villagers were often living on the edge of subsistence. Agricultural surpluses were skimmed by the church and the feudal lords. Bad harvests, banditry, warfare and disease might decimate a village community at any time. Dwarf Fortress has shown that this would in fact be quite exciting, but it would probably be a lot more niche.

Once you get over the bonkers UI its pretty easy to make a dwarf fortress that can survive essentially forever, farmers are ridiculously productive so you can support a population of 100-200 pretty easily with 10 or fewer farmers.

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#57

Post by goda90 »

I'd be curious to hear this professor's take on the villages of Kingdom Come: Deliverance, which is a medieval RPG that attempts to bring some aspects of realism. It even has a DLC where a lord appoints the player to be the bailiff for an effort to rebuild an abandoned fort town, and you work with the "master builder" to choose what industries to foster, while bringing in money and skilled workers from elsewhere.

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#58

Post by skitter »

mpfundstein wrote: post #14
littlecranky67 wrote: post #6

I would love a building game where you can't build roads. All of those building games so far allowed that, but I think it would be more fun to just allow for constructing building, and roads/pathway would form depending on their connectivity inside the production chain. I.e. you wouldn't connect your farm to a butcher, but pathways would form and eventually turn into street based on the amount people from dependent s…

The settlers.did this AFAIK

Specifically Settlers 3 & 4. In 1, 2, 6 and I believe 7, paths are build manually; 5 doesn't have roads.

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#59

Post by ecshafer »

publicola1990 wrote: post #4

Even modern city builders are inaccurate in the sense that timelines of how long it takes to build things aren't Modelled correct. Plus organic city growth is rarely simulated. Cities skylines for example has no concept of slums. Also the annoying Western/Eurocentrism. Eg: See the recent game Dorfromantik, its aesthetically pleasing, it is rustic european scenery, but why isn't it not set in Indonesia or Ecuador or U…

Why don't YOU make a game with rustic Indonesian scenery? Someone wants to make a game set in Europe, so they are now annoying Eurocentrics. To criticize someone because they are not making some setting choices that you would prefer, as some kind of moral failure, is not good.

Re: The historical accuracy of medieval city-builder video games

#60

Post by Retric »

Rd6n6 wrote: post #21

I’m actually beginning some informal research on 17th century Europe for a small game right now. There are some village life and village builder aspects. It’s the beginning of the “modern” period and just after the renaissance. What is life like for the local business owner? Who would they be? What extent is it still feudal serfdom in during ? It’s an interesting time with massive social, scientific, and religious ch…

17th century Europe was quite modern with for example long distance power transmission. https://solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2013/01/mechanical-transmi...

The spinning wheel similarly had already transformed transformed the making of cloth and rope. By the 1700’s cottage industries where setup to leverage the free time of village workers on an industrial scale. Communities would specialize based on local resources including transportation networks.

Also, rivers where the medieval equivalent of highways and railroads. A 500 mile journey by waterways was generally cheaper than a 50 mile trip by land.

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