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Early Retirement (2006)

philip.greenspun.com

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Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#51

Post by MattGaiser »

giantg2 wrote: post #17
MattGaiser wrote: post #5

> How much work does the average college student get done? Almost none. Yet the same person, injected into a corporate bureaucracy, becomes a reasonably effective worker. Why? Most people have terrible time management skills. This limitation is of no consequence in public school. The school tells you where to sit and what to do and when, at least for six hours per day. This limitation is of no consequence at most job…

I agree, but it depends on what you consider work. The author in your quote is implying that in public school you get a lot of work done. I don't think this is necessarily true. Unless, we are counting sitting in school for 6 hours each day as work. If we measure work as simple attendance and adherence to a schedule, then it seems that work and school are similar (ie sit in a class lecture v sit in a meeting, with ve…

I agree. I don't think either setting can be considered highly productive.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#52

Post by Domenic_S »

defaultname wrote: post #37
dagw wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but I don’t know anyone who’s less happy being retired. I've known lots of people who spiraled into various levels of depression after retirement. It's even more likely if the retirement wasn't voluntary.

Retirement is such a loaded word because to many it means "wealthy enough to do whatever they want", whereas traditionally it meant "no longer useful to employers". In the former case we have stories of 20-somethings "retiring", the word repurposed into just a meaningless boast. In the no longer useful to employers vein, in the working class town I grew up in there was a common observation that retirement was a harbi…

The article discusses this. In part:

> Americans cannot imagine stopping work before they've either (1) purchased everything that they could conceivably want, or (2) collapsed from physical exhaustion.

If your material needs and desires are sufficiently low, and your resources sufficiently high, you could retire. Age or usefulness to an employer could be an upper bound, I suppose.

I look at it like this: finances are like a bathtub. What you spend is the drain, your income (whether salary, interest, cap gains, etc) is the faucet, and your resources are the water in the tub. Retirement is the point where you can turn off (or turn down) the faucet and not run dry. Some people have big drainpipes and need a big tub and lots of water; others can live with a trickle.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#53

Post by david927 »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #14

I was hoping to find some nuggets of wisdom in this blog post but came up empty I'm afraid. I kept busy writing games, doing art, making things from wood before my career/family, I see no reason why I will not again when retired. As I do have a family (and nearly an empty nest now) I have become quite comfortable not having much of a "social life". I still want friends, still need the occasional connection, but it is…

This person seems to have extreme, simplistic views that they hold as the truth.

Non-profit organizations exist to provide their staff with great jobs"? He honestly believes that? How many has he worked with? I've worked with non-profits my whole life, and some are flawed, but many do tremendously valuable work. No to the beach? Depends on your preferences.

To the author: Taking personal, anecdotal experiences and drawing "objective" rules from them is the modus operandi of the fool. Maybe take your retirement time to learn to be less of a fool.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#54

Post by city41 »

arenaninja wrote: post #41
cfeduke wrote: post #29

The greatest expense for me in retirement is now health insurance so it makes sense for me to instead work for insurance coverage and put my wealth towards an inheritance for my children. I used to naively believe once I paid off my mortgage, had a substantial retirement account and savings - a couple million dollars - I'd no longer work. It's also very difficult to get off of the treadmill of spending a lot of money…

This is why I max out my HSA and don't withdraw since it became available to me (unfortunately this was until my 30s) Have you considered moving to a country with quality healthcare at cheaper price? Mexico comes to mind

In case you're not aware, you can't use HSA funds to pay for insurance.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#55

Post by jorblumesea »

arenaninja wrote: post #41
cfeduke wrote: post #29

The greatest expense for me in retirement is now health insurance so it makes sense for me to instead work for insurance coverage and put my wealth towards an inheritance for my children. I used to naively believe once I paid off my mortgage, had a substantial retirement account and savings - a couple million dollars - I'd no longer work. It's also very difficult to get off of the treadmill of spending a lot of money…

This is why I max out my HSA and don't withdraw since it became available to me (unfortunately this was until my 30s) Have you considered moving to a country with quality healthcare at cheaper price? Mexico comes to mind

All this does is avoid taxes on the exorbitant amount you're paying. It doesn't make the American healthcare system significantly cheaper. Also, HSA cannot be used to pay for insurance premiums.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#56

Post by cyberlurker »

flowerlad wrote: post #44
cfeduke wrote: post #29

The greatest expense for me in retirement is now health insurance so it makes sense for me to instead work for insurance coverage and put my wealth towards an inheritance for my children. I used to naively believe once I paid off my mortgage, had a substantial retirement account and savings - a couple million dollars - I'd no longer work. It's also very difficult to get off of the treadmill of spending a lot of money…

> The greatest expense for me in retirement is now health insurance Obamacare changes that. If you don't have much income you get ACA federal tax credits.

If you withdraw from a 401k, doesn’t that become taxable income? I’m assuming if someone takes enough out per year to hit $50k+ they will reduce their federal credits to zero.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#57

Post by lotsofpulp »

jorblumesea wrote: post #43

If you've ever talked to anyone that has done FIRE or just retired a few years early, it's always health insurance. The current US system of healthcare via your employer is a huge blocker to any kind of alternative lifestyle. Have to wait until 65 (or like 68 by the time most of us can retire)

The current system is not healthcare via employer. Anyone can go to healthcare.gov and get the same insurance plans.

The main benefit of employer purchased health insurance is that you buy with pre tax dollars.

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#58

Post by toomuchtodo »

cyberlurker wrote: post #49
cfeduke wrote: post #29

The greatest expense for me in retirement is now health insurance so it makes sense for me to instead work for insurance coverage and put my wealth towards an inheritance for my children. I used to naively believe once I paid off my mortgage, had a substantial retirement account and savings - a couple million dollars - I'd no longer work. It's also very difficult to get off of the treadmill of spending a lot of money…

Do people in countries with universal healthcare not have this problem? What are the types of products and services that are so significant? Surely we aren’t talking about things like Netflix and utilities?

It's a lesser problem, but there are also less opportunities to accumulate wealth rapidly.

Lots of folks I know get FatFIRE (>=$5MM assets, $200k/year in income at 4% SWR) in the US and then retire to Portugal [1] (which has universal healthcare, and gets you access to the EU).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_Golden_Visa

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#59

Post by neogodless »

jorblumesea wrote: post #43

If you've ever talked to anyone that has done FIRE or just retired a few years early, it's always health insurance. The current US system of healthcare via your employer is a huge blocker to any kind of alternative lifestyle. Have to wait until 65 (or like 68 by the time most of us can retire)

With the current options for health insurance plans, this depends largely on your other expenses.

To explain, your "income" in early retirement is a combination of money you're converting from an IRA to a Roth IRA, capital gains (as you sell investments to cover expenses) and dividends on your taxable brokerage account. If your expenses are in the $40-50k range annually, you might only be paying on conversion income, and relatively low taxes on long-term capital gains. Overall, you can qualify for health insurance subsidies at this level of taxation, and get a pretty good plan without a lot of out of pocket expenses.

Here's one example of an article going into the details:

https://rpgplanner.com/aca-tax-credits/

Re: Early Retirement (2006)

#60

Post by paulpauper »

cyberlurker wrote: post #49
cfeduke wrote: post #29

The greatest expense for me in retirement is now health insurance so it makes sense for me to instead work for insurance coverage and put my wealth towards an inheritance for my children. I used to naively believe once I paid off my mortgage, had a substantial retirement account and savings - a couple million dollars - I'd no longer work. It's also very difficult to get off of the treadmill of spending a lot of money…

Do people in countries with universal healthcare not have this problem? What are the types of products and services that are so significant? Surely we aren’t talking about things like Netflix and utilities?

From what I have calculated, the savings from universal care vs insurance are negated by higher taxes
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