51–60 of 66 posts
Wow something from Melbourne comes to the first rank in HN! actually I still can't find any explanation why the fire starts at all. Or maybe they haven't found out yet Edit: I don't get the downvotes, I am from Melbie, nothing is controversial here
Fire root cause analysis is tricky. There is a high probability that no precise root cause will ever be identified.
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It's been... interesting watching Tesla migrate from their more oddball technical decisions to using the same tech as the rest of the industry. LFP is a really conventional tech for stationary storage as well as vehicle applications with less demanding power-to-weight requirements. They also seem to have mostly switched from the AC motors that inspired their name to permanent magnet brushless motors like the rest of…
I'd agree that LFP is becoming conventional in stationary storage, but it's still relatively unusual in passenger vehicles outside of China. As far as I know, Tesla is unique amongst "western" automakers in using LFP cells in some of its cars.
That said, chemistry has come a long ways, the Wheego is more like a hotrodded golf cart than an actual car. That was the norm for 2011 though.
[0] https://www.forbes.com/sites/eco-nomics/2012/03/14/can-tiny-...
>> inside a shipping container These things don't look like shipping containers. They appear to be the same size/shape and have the proper attachment points to be handled as shipping containers, but are they actual containers? Even Tesla wouldn't go so far as to mount batteries inside standard shipping containers. They might make ok housing but with all the thermal/electrical issues a bespoke design would be appropri…
Who claimed that these were shipping containers? It comforms to the applicable ISO standards, it is transported like a shipping container. It is a shipping container
"They found a 13-tonne lithium battery inside a shipping container was fully involved and crews wearing breathing apparatus worked to contain the fire and stop it spreading to nearby batteries."
A fire literally inside a shipping container is a very specific thing that firefighters train for. There are even some unique tools for handling them (spray nozzles inserted through drilled holes.)
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As per article, the CFA wasn't able to put it out, and had to just let it burn. If this was in summer then that would be taking resources away from quickly responding to the hundreds of other callouts they get - I'm not super happy with the idea of volunteers spending their time to babysit a chemical fire from equipment that clearly hasn't been designed for local conditions. You're right most of the risk is at the st…
If they actually do have many fires to deal with (which I doubt, most firefighting departments don't) then they can just put a barrier around it and leave it. No need to babysit.
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As per article, the CFA wasn't able to put it out, and had to just let it burn. If this was in summer then that would be taking resources away from quickly responding to the hundreds of other callouts they get - I'm not super happy with the idea of volunteers spending their time to babysit a chemical fire from equipment that clearly hasn't been designed for local conditions. You're right most of the risk is at the st…
If they actually do have many fires to deal with (which I doubt, most firefighting departments don't) then they can just put a barrier around it and leave it. No need to babysit.
a) temperatures in that region can regularly get over 40°C (104°F) during summer, a stray spark or flare up can easily get out of hand
b) during bushfire season sometimes as many as 10,000 fire fighters can be deployed (professional as well as part time volunteers) with fires sometimes consuming more than 1 million acres during one season. Most bushfire season fire fighters are very busy; in the 2008-2009 season it lasted from September to March.
c) the best way to contain a lithium fire is to keep the temperature down, which means fire fighters on site with hoses for an extended period.
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>Who's paying for the transition? The customer or Tesla? Since nearly all Tesla revenue comes from Tesla customers I would imagine the customers will be ultimately footing the bill. >Was this comment controversial in any way? Honestly it comes off as cynical and a little dumb -- which is why it might be grey. If a business agrees to a cost -- it will be the customers paying for that cost. Your peevish "Who is paying…
Either the customer or the investor. All of the current Tesla capital comes from the investors. They've just started breaking even now, and it can take a while to cover all the past costs. As of the latest 10-Q the accumulated deficit (sum over all past earnings) is -$3.6B. The total capital raised from investors is well over $15B.
Just like any other kind of investment ever done.
Wow something from Melbourne comes to the first rank in HN! actually I still can't find any explanation why the fire starts at all. Or maybe they haven't found out yet Edit: I don't get the downvotes, I am from Melbie, nothing is controversial here
It happens, unless there's something surprising/unusual to be found that caused it like remnants of oily rag, or empty bottle marked 'molotov cocktail', I assume more time & energy will be spent on 'are the existing racks/containers/etc. enough to contain and isolate fires' (or no they're not, why, we thought they were). If a phone battery say catches fire it's generally not such a big deal - it's not surrounded by a…
Unless it's in your pocket!
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Who's paying for the transition? The customer or Tesla? Funny this got downvoted. Was this comment controversial in any way?
>Who's paying for the transition? The customer or Tesla? Since nearly all Tesla revenue comes from Tesla customers I would imagine the customers will be ultimately footing the bill. >Was this comment controversial in any way? Honestly it comes off as cynical and a little dumb -- which is why it might be grey. If a business agrees to a cost -- it will be the customers paying for that cost. Your peevish "Who is paying…
People like you who really love Tesla for some reason seem to be willingly ignorant of that fact. As others have mentioned before even DIY batteries were recommending other battery technologies for precisely these reasons.
Tesla either really didn't know, which would be massively incompetent, which I don't believe or willfully misled buyers into buying for this purpose unsafe products.
If this was the first time this happened(Tesla marketing unsafe products as safe until they got caught) you could brush it away as honest mistake, but since it's not, it's safe to say they just wanted to quickly market an unsafe product.
It's not a cynical question by the way, but a sarcastic one. No idea why you decided to take it so personal though. There is a slight chance, that Tesla actually replaces this with something less dangerous, which would be the right thing to do, but that's unlikely to happen, since people like you in government believe that when the scammer scams you, the scammer isn't to blame, but it's the customer that should foot the bill.
Given that this didn't happen in the USA, there's also the off-chance, that someone in that country actually holds Tesla responsible for what happened.
Not a car battery. > a 13-tonne lithium battery inside a shipping container The other ~99 container battery packs survived.
Oh, so only the 1 would be likely to start a massive bushfire if this happened in summer? That makes me feel better.