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MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

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Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#51

Post by aliswe »

Toutouxc wrote: post #36
nwallin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's wild to me that on both Windows and OSX that something that is obviously just personal preference is baked into the operating system, with no method for changing it. It's on the same level as having an operating system that didn't let you change your desktop background.

> something that is obviously just personal preference I have a feeling that this exact idea is the reason why most Linux DEs look like crap [to me]. The way fonts look (especially those used in the system UI) is, just like colors or margins, [in my opinion] a matter of design, not just personal preference.

applies to most open source ux, because noone is allowed to take command which also does a good job of it.

blender is a notable exception, though.

Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#53

Post by jeroenhd »

blehn wrote: post #47
yepthatsreality wrote: post #5

I don’t use Windows anymore (Pop_os and FreeBSD) but never had an issue with how the fonts rendered. The site doesn’t seem to indicate anymore information either.

Windows biases for a sharper text appearance, whereas Mac is much smoother. I can see why some folks prefer the sharp look, but fonts on Windows often look nothing like what the designer intended. Mac is a lot more true to the font design.

Honestly, I prefer the Windows sharpness much to the aesthetic and font design that the author of the font wants. Fonts are a nice for styling a document or website, but in the end the text is designed to be read, not to be art.

If the designer only tested on macOS, I don't think this has anything to do with what the designer "intended". It just shows a lack of testing on other platforms, something that happens quite often (i.e. when dealing with scrollbars [1]).

Personally, I dislike the vague, blurry rendering macOS uses. Macs usually compensate for their weird, blurry, bold rendering with high-resolution screens, but on lower resolutions I really dislike the way fonts look on macOS.

[1]: https://svenkadak.com/blog/scrollbar-blindness

Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#54

Post by hsn915 »

crazygringo wrote: post #7

It's bizarre that neither the README nor the associated minimal site explains what it does in detail, with screenshots or anything. I'm assuming this is a modern version of GDI++, which a decade ago brought Mac-style font rendering to Windows, but stopped being maintained a while ago. For people who aren't aware of the difference, it's essentially that Windows uses heavy font hinting to try to align character strokes…

I never understood _why_ but text rendering on windows has always looked like garbage to me.

It was obviously not the screen resolution or anything, because you can run a linux vm (say, on virtualbox) and the text rendering inside the VM will look much better than the text in windows.

> Nobody's "right", it's just personal preference.

I don't think that's true. macos is clearly better.

Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#55

Post by ObscureScience »

hsn915 wrote: post #54
crazygringo wrote: post #7

It's bizarre that neither the README nor the associated minimal site explains what it does in detail, with screenshots or anything. I'm assuming this is a modern version of GDI++, which a decade ago brought Mac-style font rendering to Windows, but stopped being maintained a while ago. For people who aren't aware of the difference, it's essentially that Windows uses heavy font hinting to try to align character strokes…

I never understood _why_ but text rendering on windows has always looked like garbage to me. It was obviously not the screen resolution or anything, because you can run a linux vm (say, on virtualbox) and the text rendering inside the VM will look much better than the text in windows. > Nobody's "right", it's just personal preference. I don't think that's true. macos is clearly better.

I don't agree with that. I think it's pretty clearly about preference. On non retina displays, MacOSX really is blurry, and my preference is clear lines, preferbly without antialiasing, an certainly without subpixel AA. I think pre cleartype Windows, Classic MacOS, or X11 with bitmap fonts looked the best, but was not flexible enough for modern requirements.

Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#56

Post by tssva »

hsn915 wrote: post #54
crazygringo wrote: post #7

It's bizarre that neither the README nor the associated minimal site explains what it does in detail, with screenshots or anything. I'm assuming this is a modern version of GDI++, which a decade ago brought Mac-style font rendering to Windows, but stopped being maintained a while ago. For people who aren't aware of the difference, it's essentially that Windows uses heavy font hinting to try to align character strokes…

I never understood _why_ but text rendering on windows has always looked like garbage to me. It was obviously not the screen resolution or anything, because you can run a linux vm (say, on virtualbox) and the text rendering inside the VM will look much better than the text in windows. > Nobody's "right", it's just personal preference. I don't think that's true. macos is clearly better.

And here is proof that it is personal preference. I hate the font rendering on macOS and think Windows is clearly better. I even think the font rendering on modern Linux distributions is superior to that on macOS.

Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#57

Post by alkonaut »

crazygringo wrote: post #7

It's bizarre that neither the README nor the associated minimal site explains what it does in detail, with screenshots or anything. I'm assuming this is a modern version of GDI++, which a decade ago brought Mac-style font rendering to Windows, but stopped being maintained a while ago. For people who aren't aware of the difference, it's essentially that Windows uses heavy font hinting to try to align character strokes…

Yes but unlike Tabs-vs-spaces or vim-vs-emacs, in this case at least ClearType is right and the other one is wrong...

Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#58

Post by [deleted] »

didibus wrote: post #9

I just switched from Windows to a Mac, and I immediately found that the colors and contrast and the clarity of images and text on the same monitor I connect my laptop too improved. I wasn't sure if it was just in my head, but something about the rendering in Mac seems better to me. I don't know if they have better calibration for colors and contrast, better anti-aliasing, etc., but I seem to see the screen much bette…

[deleted]

Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#59

Post by arsome »

hsn915 wrote: post #54
crazygringo wrote: post #7

It's bizarre that neither the README nor the associated minimal site explains what it does in detail, with screenshots or anything. I'm assuming this is a modern version of GDI++, which a decade ago brought Mac-style font rendering to Windows, but stopped being maintained a while ago. For people who aren't aware of the difference, it's essentially that Windows uses heavy font hinting to try to align character strokes…

I never understood _why_ but text rendering on windows has always looked like garbage to me. It was obviously not the screen resolution or anything, because you can run a linux vm (say, on virtualbox) and the text rendering inside the VM will look much better than the text in windows. > Nobody's "right", it's just personal preference. I don't think that's true. macos is clearly better.

Interesting, I personally far prefer the Windows one on 100 DPI displays at least. The blurriness is quite noticeable on OS X and certain Windows applications that attempted to use this style of font rendering.

Sure, it's great on higher DPI screens, but then it makes even less of a difference whichever one you use.

I'd say Microsoft made the right call here.

Re: MacType: Better Font Rendering for Windows

#60

Post by X-Cubed »

nwallin wrote: post #18
crazygringo wrote: post #7

It's bizarre that neither the README nor the associated minimal site explains what it does in detail, with screenshots or anything. I'm assuming this is a modern version of GDI++, which a decade ago brought Mac-style font rendering to Windows, but stopped being maintained a while ago. For people who aren't aware of the difference, it's essentially that Windows uses heavy font hinting to try to align character strokes…

It's wild to me that on both Windows and OSX that something that is obviously just personal preference is baked into the operating system, with no method for changing it. It's on the same level as having an operating system that didn't let you change your desktop background.

There's an Adjust ClearType Text entry in the Start Menu that runs a wizard to tune how the anti-aliasing is configured. It asks you which options looks best.
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