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The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

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Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 for Seveneves. I found it so engrossing that just thinking about it now I can picture the shapes of that chain in zero-G, and the unexpectedly long-lasting hellscape consequences of the very early reveal. The CB radio...

eh, 1st 1/2 great. 2nd half ... really falls apart

Yeah, they're really 2 different books.

BUT, I enjoyed the 2nd half as well. The 1st book is already obsolete technologically in some ways (launch technology has progressed a lot in the last 5 years)[0], although very interesting. Which is one reason I like the 2nd part in that it extrapolates from the sociocultural/technological developments of the first book to see what the ultimate consequences could be.

The book is also a sharp commentary on the destructiveness of social media...

[0]side note: the speed of progress that SpaceX is achieving with Starship in Boca Chica is comparable to a pace you'd want in the first book... They're going so fast in Boca Chica, as if the Moon fell apart and they only have a couple years left before the Hard Rain to make humanity a multiplanetary species...

Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#52
post #4

Can ye recommend any novels / authors that are as hard sci-fi as KSR or Arthur C Clarke?

Beyond what other people list here:

- Hugh Howey. His Silo series is worth a read. He published it in some episodic form. However, I'd recommend just getting the whole thing. Beacon 23 is a bit shorter and also nice.

- Ramez Naam. His nexus series is a decent series. Not the best written but I enjoyed it.

- James S.A. Corey, the expanse series. Makes you appreciate the tv series more.

- Authors others already mentioned: Neal Stephenson & Peter Watts.

Other authors that go more in the direction of space opera: Iam M. Banks, Ernest Cline, John Scalzi, Ann Lecky, Richard K. Morgan (Altered Carbon).

Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Rainbows End is excellent. However, I was disappointed with The Children of the Sky .

It had an interesting take on industrialization with a hivemind though. Manchester capitalism is not really bad if you are borg, after all its just a hand assigned to boredom. Rainbows End explored a society which went full AR, but in my opinion most of the shots if fired missed the target.

Even so, I would love recommendations that take full AR as seriously.

Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#54
post #14

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Accelerando by Charles Stross, The Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson, Diaspora by Greg Egan, Distraction by Bruce Sterling

Sorry, but Accelerando is horrible. I recommend Singularity Sky, the weird one, not watered down for the mainstream. The characters are flat, but the weirdness on route, is captured much better.

I have a soft spot for Accelerando because it was my first encounter with the exo-cortex (or perhaps more accurately called cybernetics) concept, aka computers as an external brain. Also it was my first encounter with the concept of smart contracts, laws & corporations run purely as code.

Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#55
I recently listened to KSR on Exponential View, Ministry of the Future has an intriguing premise and hope to read that soon.

Recently began a fiction kick after starting my full-time job for the first time, nice way to break screen-time instead of gaming. There's something nice about visualizing worlds instead of seeing worlds built by someone else.

Currently reading the first Dune book and love it. Reminds me of GOT on Mars.

Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#56
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would kind of consider the stand alone books Black Man/Thirteen, Thin Air (two books, same universe) and the Altered Carbon trilogy by Richard Morgan "hard" sci-fi to an extent - and be aware that the TV series, while entertaining, butchered much of the political content in the books.

If you like the "Takeshi Kovacs / Altered Carbon" trilogy, you'll almost definitely like the "Greg Mandel / Event Horizon" trilogy by Peter F. Hamilton. And they're not bible sized tomes like some of PFH's later space operas (some of which I own, but am too intimidated by their size to have considered starting the journey).

True, I was considering mentioning Hamilton, but it's been so long since I read those books - so wasn't quite sure if I'd call them hard sci-fi or not :)

Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#57
post #2

Mars Trilogy changed how I look at the world, nation states and the future. Love KSR!

> Mars Trilogy changed how I look at the world, nation states and the future. In what way? (if that's practical/possible to answer)

For me while reading it was the first time I thought "hey nations are purely social/political constructs and not set into stone at all". Sounds trivial but that book changed my perspective on that matter.

I suppose that the cultural background (Old World here) might play a role here - I can imagine an American thinking "of course you can just get rid of the people exploiting your kind, we did that before already".

Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#58
post #4

Can ye recommend any novels / authors that are as hard sci-fi as KSR or Arthur C Clarke?

Depends what you mean by 'hard'.

Anything by Greg Egan is probably going to be the hardest sci-fi you've ever read. Dude wrote a book where he considered the ramifications of a universe built on a positive-definite Riemannian metric, and another one where the universe has 2 time dimensions.

Robert L. Forward's Dragon's Egg explores what life might look like if it evolved on a neutron star.

Adrian Tchaikovsky's Children of Time and Children of Ruin explore the evolution of other earth species if they were given a kick towards sapience.

Vernor Vinge's A Fire Upon the Deep is half space adventure (not very hard) and half an exploration of a lifeform which only achieves sapience in small groups. A Deepness in the Sky is generally harder and explores a lot of things, including the power of focused human attention, the difficulty of galactic scale civilization, and alien life evolved in a star system where the star periodically dims.

Steven Baxter and Clarke collaborated on The Light of Other Days, which explores the technical and sociological consequences of a device which allows you to see the past.

With a broad interpretation of 'hard' I can highly recommend Ursula Le Guin's The Left Hand of Darkness and The Dispossessed, which have soft science but hard humanity.

Similarly The Long Earth series, a collaboration between Pratchett and Baxter, where it seems Baxter handles the sociological and technological consequences of the science while Pratchett handles the characters and philosophy.

Asimov's I, Robot is an exploration of what happens when you try to constrain intelligence with rules.

Asimov's Foundation Trilogy gets a lot of hype, but it isn't very hard and I also found it utterly mediocre. Instead I recommend The God's Themselves, which is so good it's like Asimov was channeling a much better writer to get his ideas down. It explores the limited interaction of our universe with one that has slightly different physical properties.

Also perhaps stretching the definition of 'hard', but I want to recommend it because it's relatively unknown, is Leonard Richardson's Constellation Games, in which an incredibly advanced multi-species anarchic alien civilization makes first contact with humanity, and the protagonist really just wants to play their video games. It's actually harder sci-fi than it sounds.

Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#59
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like Dragon's Egg by Robert L Forward, and its sequel as well.

I didn’t know there was a sequel! How exciting.

Starquake. It's not as good as Dragon's Egg in my opinion, and seems much more focused on development of interesting characters. That's not a bad thing, mind you.

Re: The Realism of Our Times: Kim Stanley Robinson on how science fiction works

#60
post #28

Really loved the Mars trilogy when I was a teenager. The clunky character development and invented politics haven't aged super well, but the stories are still interesting. I also enjoyed The Memory of Whiteness and The Years of Rice and Salt. More recently I tried reading Aurora (2015), but the book is a downer and a slog. Not recommended. Didn't finish it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurora_(novel)

I came across Memory of Whiteness while taking my college music theory classes. It's very fantastical but I loved how he connected various compositional techniques with physical processes. It's a very underrated book.
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