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Amazon Shuts Down NSO Group Infrastructure

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Re: Amazon Shuts Down NSO Group Infrastructure

#51

Post by geofft »

xoa wrote: post #29
geofft wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, and it "seems like" the extremist propaganda that Big Tech shut down was violating all sorts of other laws like incitement. Is "seems like" enough of a reason now for private companies to choose not to contract with other private companies? Or should we go to a judge and jury in both cases?

> Sure, and it "seems like" the extremist propaganda that Big Tech shut down was violating all sorts of other laws like incitement. Most of it actually wasn't FWIW, hateful extremist content is generally perfectly legal free speech. "Incitement" gets used way, way too often on the internet, almost nothing that gets posted online is legal incitement. But neither "Big Tech" (such a dumb term) nor Hacker News nor a rand…

To be clear, I'm personally all in favor of Amazon choosing who they want or don't want to contract to. But the comment I was replying to was saying it's only okay (as in, good for society, I guess) for Amazon to kick off NSO because Amazon thought they were violating the law. I agree most extremist content is legal free speech, but not all of it is, which should be enough reason, by that rule, to kick off extremist content.

I'm simply agreeing with the comment at the top of the thread - all the outcry we usually hear about private companies being too powerful should apply here too. (My opinion is there should be no outcry about either.)

Re: Amazon Shuts Down NSO Group Infrastructure

#52

Post by largbae »

tptacek wrote: post #26
bluetwo wrote: post #4

Wonder if NSO was involved in that leak of Bezo's phone data awhile back.

Wasn't there recently a whole huge story about how it turned out to be his girlfriend's brother?

I'd like a link if so, I have been interested in why that story isn't more important, given the attention other state-sponsored hacks have received...

Re: Amazon Shuts Down NSO Group Infrastructure

#53

Post by cguess »

kdkdmdm wrote: post #42
esens wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NSO seems to be used by tyrants to go after legitimate opposition. The NSA isn't used by the President to target the party out of power no? But in NSO case in India apparently it was: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2021/jul/19/key-modi-rival-... NSO is used to keep those with money and access to NSO in power undermine their legitimate rivals. It can be used to plant evidence on their devices as well as monitor ever…

> The NSA isn't used by the President to target the party out of power no Close, but you've got the wrong organization. It was the FBI that used evidence it knew was false from the start to justify a spying campaign into the opposition candidate and then used the candidate's campaign's resistance of that illegal election interference to justify political interference and, ultimately, an indictment. That's right, the…

What sorta qanon crap is this?

Re: Amazon Shuts Down NSO Group Infrastructure

#54

Post by aritmo »

esens wrote: post #28

Anyone notice that this statement from NSO in the article doesn't make sense: "NSO does not operate its technology, does not collect, nor possesses, nor has any access to any kind of data of its customers." If this is true, how do we have a singular list of all phone numbers penetrated? If there was this type of "segmentation" or firewall between NSO and its clients, why was there this huge central data leak? NSO is…

They are trying to claim that the service is so fully automated that it is the client that does the selection of the target. They claim that their system does not require any fine-tuning from their side, etc.

And that's totally bullshit.

Re: Amazon Shuts Down NSO Group Infrastructure

#55

Post by seanmcdirmid »

b112 wrote: post #49
jjoonathan wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like this is more a result of Amazon not being able to connect you with the right escalation path to verify & act on these claims than a considered decision to ignore them. Does anyone here know what an individual reporter should do? Is there an escalation ramp that exists but was so poorly marked that neither sloshnmosh nor Amazon support was able to find it? Does the ramp go through other organizations (e.…

It feels like this is more a result of Amazon not being able to connect you with the right escalation path to verify & act on these claims than a considered decision to ignore them. Those two things are actually the same thing, both are wilfully ignoring situations like this.

Never assume malice where ignorance and incompetence would suffice instead. Those two things are actually not the same thing at all, depending on how you define “willful.”

Re: Amazon Shuts Down NSO Group Infrastructure

#56

Post by hn8788 »

esens wrote: post #39
hn8788 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could mean that NSO controls the infrastructure that manages the tool, but that they don't actually collect the data themselves. So what they said could technically be true if all they do is manage the infrastructure that enables their clients to do the collection of data.

But do they have access to the phone numbers that their customers are targeting? That seems by itself to contradict their statement ("nor has any access to any kind of data of its customers") right there. Something isn't adding up.

They could be lying, or they could just be trying to use weasel words. "Data" could be referring to collected data, and they consider phone numbers "metadata". I haven't been following the story though, so I don't know which is more likely.

Re: Amazon Shuts Down NSO Group Infrastructure

#57

Post by duxup »

sneak wrote: post #34

I am willing to bet money that NSO Group has multiple AWS accounts, many under several layers of cover. You can't really spin them up with any significant quota on short notice (ask me how I know, AWS service team) so having established ones with workable limits in advance across multiple cloud providers would be table stakes for any competent spying organization.

I'm sure that applies to most every service as far as bad guys operating covertly.

I've no problem with AWS or anyone playing whack-a-mole and giving them the run around in the meantime ...

Re: Amazon Shuts Down NSO Group Infrastructure

#58

Post by input_sh »

flyinglizard wrote: post #40
zzleeper wrote: post #9

Perhaps NSO Group should be considered a terrorism-aiding organization. Freeze its assets, track all their employees, backers, etc. Wonder if they are even helping to hack US government employees through China, etc. (besides just helping to torture dissidents).

The biggest customers for these companies are Western governments. You’re not going to take away their toys.

Western governments mostly make their own. Other with less resources buy off-the-shelf products.

Re: Amazon Shuts Down NSO Group Infrastructure

#59

Post by duxup »

Spooky23 wrote: post #3

Shouldn’t there be an outcry against the suppression of free speech? When Facebook or Google blocks extremist propaganda, it’s a big thing. What jurisdiction’s laws were broken by this company?

If you're preventing someone from using your service who is used by people to prevent free speech.... what's the rule?

Re: Amazon Shuts Down NSO Group Infrastructure

#60

Post by csharptwdec19 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #55
b112 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like this is more a result of Amazon not being able to connect you with the right escalation path to verify & act on these claims than a considered decision to ignore them. Those two things are actually the same thing, both are wilfully ignoring situations like this.

Never assume malice where ignorance and incompetence would suffice instead. Those two things are actually not the same thing at all, depending on how you define “willful.”

It's malice but from a different aspect; willful malice in the name of 'cost cutting'.
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