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Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

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Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#51

Post by pankajdoharey »

Nursie wrote: post #26

>First of all, the internet’s “marketplace of ideas” is severely lopsided at the platform level The marketplace of ideas itself has been show to be a bust in recent years, IMHO. Better ideas, better models of truth and reality don't win out. People have not shown themselves interested in intellectual debate or argument. We do not see the 'best' ideas rise to the top. And before anyone asks who I am to judge the best…

Its less a "Marketplace of Ideas" and more a "church or private establishment" on the network. Even HN isnt spot on sometime bad ideas do rise up when they it appeals to peoples emotions more than sensibilities.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#52

Post by ashtonkem »

catlifeonmars wrote: post #37
jsnell wrote: post #30

This all sounds very nice, but there's a bit of sleight of hand here since the article goes out of its way to avoid details. That way everyone reads into exactly what they want, and it's totally non-obvious whether this is actually a workable proposal or not. But what's the concrete proposal here? How would things actually work? Will the services be forced to accept whatever unmoderated feed of filth the linked to se…

Why not platform-specific moderation? All social media content is available for consumption by a set of platforms the user authorizes. Those platforms are free to filter or moderate the content as they see fit. While not explicitly spelled out in TFA, this seems like the trivially obvious implementation.

Don’t we already have platform specific moderation? Isn’t that what people are complaining about?

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#53

Post by defterGoose »

0des wrote: post #3
SpywareThrow wrote: post #2

This is a ridiculous take. You will get censored no matter how much you try to “talk” about it. You’re dealing with people who will nod, say uh huh, and carry on doing what they were doing regardless of what’s written. Nothing has really been accomplished in the last decade. It’s a one way ticket to surveillance and censorship.

"Crises precipitate change" - Deltron 3030

"I wanna devise a virus; to bring dire straits to our environment"

Groans in 2021

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#54

Post by chroem- »

renewiltord wrote: post #44

Nah, I’m actually totally on board with big tech censorship so long as the government doesn’t act as an authority to fuse censorship across all platforms and instead acts to ensure that cartelized blackballing doesn’t happen I.e. a ban from Facebook shouldn’t cause an auto-ban from Twitter. Otherwise, I don’t care. Kick me off your platform. It’s your house and you have a right to not share it with me.

> so long as the government doesn’t act as an authority to fuse censorship across all platforms

They literally discussed how they're doing this last week during a white house press conference.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#55

Post by Nursie »

PontifexMinimus wrote: post #47
Nursie wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will the services be forced to accept whatever unmoderated feed of filth the linked to service sends their way? I was kinda wondering that. If a user gets banned, and moves off-platform to continue the behaviour there, but is somehow magically still linked to everyone they were linked with before... has anything really changed? Will facebook be forced to show its users the same nastiness it just booted off, because…

> Will facebook be forced to show its users the same nastiness it just booted off, because of the interop necessities? Facebook should be forced to show me the feeds I choose to subscribe to. I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself whether I find something nasty, and I find the idea of Zuckerberg as an arbiter of morality both absurd and dystopian.

You seem to want some sort of aggregator ... ? I'm not sure facebook's the best model to start with there. I think you'd be happier with a third-party service that could receive from FB, and then we wouldn't get into forcing facebook to carry stuff.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#56

Post by throwawayboise »

Nursie wrote: post #26

>First of all, the internet’s “marketplace of ideas” is severely lopsided at the platform level The marketplace of ideas itself has been show to be a bust in recent years, IMHO. Better ideas, better models of truth and reality don't win out. People have not shown themselves interested in intellectual debate or argument. We do not see the 'best' ideas rise to the top. And before anyone asks who I am to judge the best…

> factually incorrect, scientifically illiterate, conspiratorial, harmful crank ideas gain legs in the online world we've created

I don't think this is unique to the online world. It's just how humans are. We are drawn to sensational, scandalous stories for some combination of entertainment and self-righteous outrage/virtue signaling to the others in our tribe.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#57

Post by ipaddr »

pueblito wrote: post #46
pjc50 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This applies to policing in general of all kinds? Isn't this literally an "abolish the police" argument? After all, imagine the police used against you in the worst possible way ..

Surely one can conceive of effective ways to limit to damage the police can do to people short of abolishing the police. For example, disarm the police and they can’t shoot you.

You still are paying the same under your plan.

You abolish them and then move that money/power into some other entity like social services until the power / money corrupt them.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#58

Post by sbuk »

eloff wrote: post #36
sbuk wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This quote is taken out of context - see https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famou...

Interesting. So he wasn't saying what people today think he was saying. Let me fix it: Those who would sacrifice freedom for temporary security will eventually lose both and deserve neither. - me, 2021 Doesn't quite carry the same weight with my name behind it, but I stand by it nonetheless.

I agree with your sentiment, in part, but I see this quote used in this context so often, that I felt that it's worth pointing out.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#59

Post by spamizbad »

Nursie wrote: post #26

>First of all, the internet’s “marketplace of ideas” is severely lopsided at the platform level The marketplace of ideas itself has been show to be a bust in recent years, IMHO. Better ideas, better models of truth and reality don't win out. People have not shown themselves interested in intellectual debate or argument. We do not see the 'best' ideas rise to the top. And before anyone asks who I am to judge the best…

That's because the "marketplace of ideas" is being distorted by algorithms that are going to favor "provocative" ideas that drive clicks. Exciting lies defeat boring truths.

Re: Right or left, you should be worried about big tech censorship

#60

Post by caseysoftware »

chroem- wrote: post #54
renewiltord wrote: post #44

Nah, I’m actually totally on board with big tech censorship so long as the government doesn’t act as an authority to fuse censorship across all platforms and instead acts to ensure that cartelized blackballing doesn’t happen I.e. a ban from Facebook shouldn’t cause an auto-ban from Twitter. Otherwise, I don’t care. Kick me off your platform. It’s your house and you have a right to not share it with me.

> so long as the government doesn’t act as an authority to fuse censorship across all platforms They literally discussed how they're doing this last week during a white house press conference.

When you consider things like Venmo facilitate social connections and interactions, this spills into payments pretty easily too.

And remember when Google launched Google+? They referred to email as the largest social network of all.. which is why they just started people's G+ connections with their most frequently emailed/emailers.

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